Lamb vs. Twiggy

I've been hearing a lot of talk lately about Lamb and Ty...how Lamb hasn't been given a fair shake and that Purpura made a foolish trade when he dealt Wheeler since he was getting pretty much a player back that he already had...and that Ty's a mediocre player at best.

So it really got me curious... why such disagreement with the organization over this trade and why such love for Lamb? Yeah he's had a good year at the plate hitting close to .300 but there has to be more to this...so I wanted to take a look at the numbers.

In 2007:
Lamb: .293AVG .371OBP .451SLG 11HR 38RBI 42R 283AB
Ty: .272AVG .332OBP .448SLG 19HR 58RBI 61R 464AB

So Ty has had 180 more at bats...has almost twice as many HRs, 20 more RBIs, 20 more runs....a little lower AVG and OBP but their SLG are about even. Looks like Ty would average about 1 RBI per 8 at bats whereas Lamb would average 1 RBI per 7.5...in terms of runs Ty averages a run per 7.6 at bats and Lamb 1 run per 6.7...If Lamb were given the same amount of at bats as Ty has so far he would have just four more RBIs and 8 more runs....this is assuming he would maintain his current pace over 180 more at bats.

Seems like this trend holds in looking at their numbers over the past few years as well...their production is almost about the same if given the same amount of at bats...Lamb will always have the better batting average, but all their other numbers are quite similar.

Looking at fielding over their careers at 3b:
Lamb posted fielding percentages of .913, .914, .914, .919, .940 and .941 (left out 2005 cause he only played 15 games there)

Ty posted .962, about .939 (split w/ two teams in '04), .894, .940 and .969 (split w/ two teams)

Pretty big difference there.

Then looking at their range factors and zone ratings, looks like Lamb is slightly better in the former and Ty is a little better in the latter.

Looking at all this I'm thinking Lamb might hold a slight edge in offense while Ty holds a slight edge in defense...so the question is if their numbers are comparably similar, would you rather have the player with slightly better defense or slightly better offense...Personally I'd go with defense especially given that Lamb would account for maybe 10 more runs...of course then you could argue that Ty would save maybe 10 more runs than Lamb so it becomes a wash again.

So is Lamb being unfairly treated. I dunno, cause he hasn't really done anything to truly distance himself from others at that position...well save for Ensberg and of course he's gone now...but in the case of Ty vs. Lamb, maybe the organization feels that Twiggy could put up the same numbers as Lamb, relatively, but provide better defense...the numbers do point to that. And I'd rather be more defensively sound than an offensive powerhouse. So I'm fine with letting Lamb go and putting Ty in at 3b.

And looking at Lamb and Loretta...I'm guess it might be pointless to have both next year, especially since Loretta could play all infield positions whereas Lamb can't. So I think it'd be best to bring back Loretta...give Burke a chance now at 2b (which ain't happening) and in Spring Training..if he doesn't show you much then give Loretta the starting nod (he could hold it down for a few more years if need be until a younger guy pops up somewhere) and keep Burke as a utility and defensive replacement. That seems to be the most logical thing...then you have an infield of Ty, Everett, Loretta/Burke, Berkman and an outfield of Lee, Pence, Scott...that's pretty good defense up the middle and average at the corners.

I also wondered about why not putting Lamb at 3b and Ty at 2b but I'm guessing that would cripple you defensively.

And I don't think you can fault Purpura for making that trade too much...I honestly believe there just wasn't that much for Wheels; I doubt teams would be looking at past performances (as they would for Lidge) and he was having a pretty horrid year this year. Course then maybe he shouldn't have made the trade just for the sake of making one, but then perhaps moving one of the younger guys (Albers or Wandy or Nieve or Sampson) to the pen next year would be better then holding on to Wheels. If anything it might have been good to clean out some of those underachievers (like Wheeler and Ensberg)...hopefully the organization will see the light and let Lane and Palmeiro and Borkowski and/or Miller and/or Moehler go too.

 

That's exactly why I think the organization did the right thing by getting Twiggy, who's better defensively, and letting Lamb go in the offseason and using the money (that would've gone to him) on bolstering the rotation or pen.

 

Yeah I'd imagine there are some other variables to consider when comparing their offensive stats, though I don't think their spot in the lineup would have a considerable impact on the average, slugging and on base percentage...and those were relatively similar with Lamb holding the slight edge.

And playing Ty at 2nd is certainly intriguing...he can't be any worse of a defensive liability than Biggio there, especially when you have Everett to compensate. But then is Lamb, with his defense, an everyday player? Or is Lamb, Everett, Ty and Berkman better/worse than Ty, Everett, Loretta, Berkman? Hell these are questions I'd HOPE the organization is asking themselves. Why be so shortsighted...why does Burke HAVE to be your everyday 2b? Because the organization spent so much time on him? Let's not pull another Lane here.

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Agree there...I never liked Berkman going back to RF this season...when Bagwell left he became the everday 1B and that's where he should stay...no sense in risking injury to him just to find a spot for Lamb...if the only place he can hack it as a starter is 1B then he shouldn't be on this team.


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On the contray, I think Runs and RBIs are pretty useful...it would tell me that A) he can get on base and into a position to score and B) when given the opportunity he can clear the basepaths...just getting on base certainly isn't enough for a player expected to produce...course Runs and RBIs shouldn't be the sole measure, which is why I included HR, OBP, AVG and OPS.

Also, Ty's career OPS is .774 while Lamb's is .767. Ty has actually had 2.5 seasons where he was above .800 and Lamb has ONLY been above .800 since he's been with the Astros. So Lamb isn't exactly a far superior player or anything...like I said, looking at their numbers...all of them...they're fairly similar with Lamb holding a slight edge.

 

Well his first season he did log 135 games at 3b and committed 33 errors...in his second season with the Mets Ty committed 16 errors in 155 games. So both have gotten extensive time at 3b to show what they can do defensively.

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I think 3b did need to be addressed...whether Twiggy is the answer is yet to be determined...but I think Tim was looking at the trade as a chance to address that issue, but I'm also betting he was looking to make a trade in a desperate attempt to show he was trying to do something.

 

I look to look at all the stats available...not just Runs and RBIs, and not just OPS or AVG...but everything.

Hey you said Ty had only one season of over .800 and I was merely pointing out that fallacy.

Again I don't think, looking at the numbers (both defensive and offensive), that Lamb is a far better player than Ty. Lamb maybe a little better offensively but Ty is a little better defensively. And if you wanna look at right now, as in the last 10 games, well neither have been that impressive at the plate. I just don't think it'll be a major loss if the team lets Lamb go...I would like to see them explore all their options, but you have to wonder in the four seasons he's been with the Astros he hasn't separated himself from any other player at that position. And he's been given plenty of time to do so.