Kyrie Irving traded for Isaiah Thomas

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by alexcapone, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. el gnomo

    el gnomo Member

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    Marcus Smart got ripped.

     
  2. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    I agree IT would quite possibly have been gone regardless in a deal for a Kyrie-or Kyrie-type. Cleavesburg's return would have been diminished by more than just the tag-on 2.

    LBJ to be the Point ala James Bearden @'16/'17.
     
  3. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    http://www.nba.com/article/2017/09/07/isaiah-thomas-introduced-cleveland-cavaliers-hip-update

    Altman, who was flanked by Thomas and coach Tyronn Lue, made clear that he did not want either Thomas or anyone else to discuss the hip injury that cost Thomas the last three games of the Eastern Conference finals last season and will apparently cause him to miss at least a portion of the 2017-18 season.

    Lue mentioned that Thomas would not start the season, declaring Derrick Rose the team's primary point guard with Jose Calderon backing him up in Thomas' absence.

    But beyond that, no one has any idea when Thomas may play.

    "We're not going to address any specifics of (Thomas') hip injury ... and we're not going to a put timetable" on Thomas' return, Altman said. "We're not going to rush this thing. Our goal is to bring him back at some point this year."
     
  4. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Trader Danny owned them, but the Cavs were in a tough spot.
     
  5. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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  6. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Not really.

    Let's all be real here:
    1. Cavs weren't beating GSW with their old lineup anyway. It's a joke to pretend they were gonna do it with their old lineup. Sure there is a chance GSW can all be injured but disregarding that what are the chances of Cavs beating GSW in a 7 game series? Considering they lost 4-1 with KD coming off injury I'd say the chances are slim to none.
    2. Given that they were destined to lose again Lebron was gonna leave in FA, leaving Cavs with an old team,Love and a disgruntled Irving.

    So to be honest, how does IT not playing hurt the Cavs? In the worst case the same scenario will still play out, the Cavs will still lose to GSW and Lebron leaves. The difference is in the old scenario if Lebron leaves the Cavs will automatically be worse than Celts, now at least they can definitely be worse than the Celtics because guess what, they have a lottery pick, a center with upside (Zizic), a solid wing defender and capspace since they will just let IT walk in that scenario.

    Best case scenario is IT comes back in time for the playoffs the same way KD did and Lebron and IT beat GSW. I'd take a healthy IT over Irving any day of the week, he was Celts' main offensive option and he hard carried them all the way to the ECF. Irving has his age going for him, but for the upcoming season it's a joke to say Irving has proved himself to be better than IT. Cavs can also shop their lottery pick for a 4rth star and equal GSW's star power.

    This is a win-win trade for both teams, Celtics got out of paying IT max money while upgrading the pg slot and the Cavs made their team better now and for the future as well.
     
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  7. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    https://theathletic.com/96596/2017/...en-more-questions-about-isaiah-thomas-health/

    One source with direct knowledge of Thomas’ hip condition told The Athletic last week that he is dealing with more than just a tear. Some of those secondary issues in the hip he has played with for years now, such as a loss of cartilage and some arthritis, are complicating his healing process.

    “No one has any idea how quickly this will heal or if it even will heal at all,” the source said. “It’s hard to predict.”

    ...

    As for the Brooklyn pick the Cavs received, I have strong doubts they’ll flip it between now and February’s trade deadline. For now, it’s an insurance policy in case James bolts town again next summer. Even if they are eager to trade it, who will they buy with it?

    It’s rare for one superstar to become available in a season, yet three of them have been traded in the last four months. Now that Paul George, Jimmy Butler and Irving are off the board, what other star worthy of that pick is going to become available between now and February?

    DeMarcus Cousins? Given James’ uncertain future, it’s hard to envision Dan Gilbert flipping that pick for a mercurial talent who is also entering free agency next summer. Anything can happen within the next five months, but it’s hard to identify a star now that will be available in trade by winter.

    Until we know when Thomas will return and what type of condition he’ll be in, and until the Cavs decide what to do with the Brooklyn pick, it’s impossible to evaluate what exactly they received for trading away the second-best player on their team. Thursday’s array of dodging, dipping and dancing did little to soothe any of those concerns.
     
  8. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    Didn't include Chris Paul on his list of superstars being traded?? Media conspiracy.
     
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  9. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    @Os Trigonum
     
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  10. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Ainge didn't own the Cavs, he paid top dollar for Irving...arguably too much for a disgruntled star when compared to other stars traded within 2 years.
     
  11. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I totally disagree with the majority view on this trade.

    Time will tell.
     
  12. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Personally I don't think you even need to look into the future. Let's say Irving turns into the next Michael Jordan, it still won't change the fact that Irving wanted out anyway. Even if Isiah Thomas spends the next season injured and Cavs had a major upset and lost to Celtics and Lebron leaves, Cavs will still get a lottery pick+pieces like Zizic and Jae Crowder. If they want they can flip that lotto pick for a mini-star, sign another star with their capspace and voila they are stacked again. And that's the worst case what if IT returns before playoffs, Cavs takes GSW out in 7 games and then they get Otto Porter? The limited risk but sky high ceiling of this trade makes it a no-brainer. I mean what is the alternative available to them? Letting Irving stay and hope he and Lebron patch things up? Considering Lebron was already hinting he was gonna leave even before he knew Irving was upset with him it's not like he was gonna stay if they patched things up. You can't say they lost the trade and then can't give a better alternative.Their package now is way better than a disgruntled Irving who felt like the Cavs made promised him a team but gave the keys to Lebron.

    As for the Celts I really felt like they paid too much to upgrade from IT to Kyrie, I mean this is a team who could have had 2 top 5 picks next year, why not let it play out a year and then you could have had a top pick in the same year they reached ECF. Tatum and Jaylen Brown are too young to win now, so why did they rush and upgrade now instead of stockpiling more picks and make a move in 2018? If IT was inured then couldn't play that was even better, Celts could have gone all young and have an unprecedented 3 picks in the top 5! Both Horford and Hayward are locked long term so 1 year of tanking wouldn't have hurt them. They made a move too early IMHO and it won't change anything, last year they reached ECF and lost to the Cavs this year they will reach ECF and lose to the Cavs with or without a healthy IT. People just aren't gonna nitpick because they still have lots of assets and young prospects like Brown and Tatum and a pick from Lakers but disregarding those extra assets this was a pretty dumb move I feel. Their package is even better than what NYC gave up for Melo.
     
  13. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    This trade is like the Harden trade by OKC -- way too early than needed. Irving has two years left on his contract. There is no need to trade him no matter what he says about not showing up for camp.

    As a GM you hold on to your ace card as long as possible. if LeBron is truly out the door, then why trade your other superstar -- a former first overall pick -- for the possibility of having to draft again and hoping to land a another Kyrie when you already have one and his only 25 and just about to reach his prime?

    The smart play would have been to stay put. When LeBron leaves, you kiss Kyrie's ass and do whatever it takes make him happy as the face of the franchise. if that fails, only then do you open up the possibility of trade with a year still left on his contract.

    Bottom line: bad move by Cavs. Will regret for a long time.
     
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  14. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    You're trying too hard. Just give it a rest and watch it play out. Might surprise you.
     
  15. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    There's a difference between Harden and Irving package, first of all Kevin Martin is nowhere near Isiah Thomas injured or not, Jeremy Lamb is nowhere near Zizic+Crowder and the guaranteed lotto pick from the raps is nowhere near Nets lotto pick (Raps had Lowry, Nets have Lin?). So the quality of the package is different thats like saying Ariza is like Kawhi. Secondly Irving is no Harden, Harden had more upside because he was just coming into his own. Irving? Irving has been in the limelight for several years now and has been babied by Lebron. Unlike Harden who carried the Thunder whenever he played the Cavs sucked whenever Lebron sat down. The only reason Irving is even considered a superstar is because of Lebron. What has Irving done by himself except get injured and collect top lotto picks?

    Trading Irving with 1 year on his deal is dumb because you only get .50 cents on the dollar for him and you make it 100% Lebron leaves. Who is the better player Lebron or Irving? What you are saying is hey lets ensure Lebron leaves and GAMBLE that we can make Irving stay if we kiss his ass. If that doesn't work, we trade Irving at a discount on a lame duck contract and he has a preference to where he goes. How is that a smart play when Celtics are offering a king's ransom for him now? What did Bulls get for Jimmy Butler or Pacers get for George again? And Irving is inferior to those two guys!

    Cavs did the smart play in that they recognized who is the better player between Lebron and Irving and they kissed Lebron's ass instead. With the roster they have now and if IT returns healthy why will Lebron even need to switch teams? In the worst case where IT doesn't even play they can trade the lotto pick for another star and they still end up with the same no of stars as before the trade except they have Zizic and Crowder.

    Again how good is Irving really? He is playing with Horford, Hayward, Tatum, Brown and the Cavs are still heavily favored against Celtics. Even if IT can't play some people still believe Cavs will still beat Celtics. What if Celts had Harden, Cp3 or Curry instead of Irving? Will people still say cavs are heavily favored against Celtics? I don't think so they would be 50-50 at worst and heavily favored to win if IT is injured.
     
    #475 roslolian, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  16. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Lol there is no point in watching it all play out first and then making your posts. Anybody can do that. Plus its still offseason this is way better than waiting for Melo updates.
     
  17. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    There is no use in arguing any further on the issue until something new happens.

    This has been the best NBA offseason ever. Can't get enough of it. To top it off, training camp begins in 2 weeks and the season starts earlier than normal.
     
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  18. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Well on that I agree this offseason has been off the charts from a sensational rookie class to multiple blockbuster deals.
     
  19. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    #479 zeeshan2, Sep 18, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  20. Snow Villiers

    Snow Villiers Member

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    LMAO, Kyrie is the most awkward thing ever on First Take. Max going at him hard
     
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