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Jeff Bezos getting divorced

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by robbie380, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    I wonder if part of it is the internet and globalization. In the past, as the rich got richer, their scale was usually determined by the markets they worked in. Once globalization hit, the largest companies could scale to unprecedented global scale, while most people can only scale their wealth to the area they live. For example. If I started the best widget company in 1950, and I sold more widgets than anyone in Texas, I would be wealthy, but I would begin to cap out as I ran into competition in other markets and my logistics kept me in Texas. As globalization hit in the 1970s, my company could scale overseas much faster...so now rather than having a healthy $25 million company in Texas, I could amass $500 million worldwide. Then...when the internet came about, it offered me instant access to a global market that I didn't have to grow organically. So now, I own a $25 Billion widget company. The people that work for me all make the same either way, but I've been able to scale my wealth at previously unprecedented rates.
     
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  2. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member
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    In general, people who remain in the low-income brackets over time have some dysfunction going on. Or, they choose to work less because for them it's a quality of life issue--ie, they value free time over money.

    In general, people who make above average incomes achieve that due to working more, focusing on their craft/business, and foregoing free time and even family time.

    There always exceptions to most everything; but as they say, the exceptions prove the rule.
     
  3. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member
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    Well, I can't disabuse you of your opinion, I suppose. But I would guess you might agree that one's mental outlook plays a large role in a person's economic situation. One can change that at any time. Where there's a will there's a way.

    You mention "stop the familiar cycle" -- what is that "familiar cycle"? I can imagine what it means -- a whole lot of dysfunctions. What does it take to stop personal dysfunction? A change in mental outlook. Again, anyone can change their mental outlook, and alter their tasks and manage their time better; re-orient themselves and become more productive.

    If someone's home environment is so toxic and dysfunctional, here's an idea: get the heck out of there.

    Of course you can't jump from the slums to a corporate job; that's kind of a ridiculous statement to impute to me. One doesn't have to have a corporate job to get out of the lower-income range. In fact, a lot of entrepreneurs do a lot better than workers in cubicles.

    You mention 12 hour shifts. Why would anyone work that, if they didn't like it? Well, the answers are usually obvious: they have partners, spouses, kids they have to support, most often. But no one foisted that upon them; those were choices they made.

    Personal choices: most everything boils down to that.
     
  4. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member
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    Oh heck. I thought we were in the D&D.
     
  5. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member
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    From Wiki:

    "Their Appalachian values include traits like loyalty and love of country despite social issues including violence and verbal abuse. He recounts his grandparents' alcoholism and abuse, and his unstable mother's history of drug addictions and failed relationships."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillbilly_Elegy

    Sounds to me like personal dysfunction is at the root of the problem. Again, most everything boils down to personal choices, and the effects of those choices.

    If one lives in a toxic household, get the heck out. There's always the military option; and there are other options.

    Edited to add: Pretty much everything about "Hillbilly Elegy" supports/proves my point.
     
    #105 BruceAndre, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  6. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Again, you do realize that this is mostly fictional rhetoric...and that Americans work long hours, are more productive than ever, and still have lower wages then we did 50 years ago despite workers being less than half as productive and the country having less than a 3rd of our current GDP (inflation adjusted).

    Oh, and to top it all off, the cost of living was considerably cheaper (inflation adjusted) as well.

    The sad truth is that this country isn't giving the vast majority of American workers the same opportunities anymore. The system has changed.
     
    #106 ThatBoyNick, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  7. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member
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    This, at least, I would agree with. The shift from industrial to post-industrial/knowledge economy has been profound.

    And, looking at someone like someone like Bezos (others could be cited), we certainly have examples of some people becoming more wealthy than the "rich" of just 30 years ago could imagine.

    But I guess this debate depends on whether you see money and the economy as a zero sum game or not. I don't. There's nothing stopping someone from coming up with the Next Big Idea. Today, we are limited only by our imaginations; and yes, our work ethic.

    Merely putting in a 12-hour day, while grueling, isn't enough. That person is working hard, for sure. But is he working smart? That's the key to success -- and, I would concede, this message isn't getting out there enough.

    Why has humanity succeeded over the long-term, over the long process of history and evolution? It's because as a species, we have the ability to adapt.

    It's those that have adapted that are succeeding. And if some fail to adapt -- which is the basic historical key to our success as a species -- whose fault is that?
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    That's a great chart. I was going to dig and come up with some statistics that would have said the same thing, but your chart is far easier to read and sums it up nicely. The post-war economic boom that followed WWII transformed a country trying to pull itself out of the Great Depression. The "bottom 90%" were able to go to college or learn a trade, and could buy homes thanks to the GI Bill, a government program for veterans of the war and also of Korea. As the economy expanded, jobs were produced that allowed one worker to afford that home, a car, a TV, and many other things, things we were producing thanks to the jobs I mentioned. The head of a company didn't make hundreds of times what a typical worker made, like they do today. He (usually a he back then) made 10 or 15 or 20 times as much.

    All someone has to do is look at your chart and see the incredible imbalance we have today in the workplace. It started with Reagan's enormous tax cuts. He was forced to raise some taxes (oh, the horror!) due to the exploding budget. Bill Clinton began to turn things around, leaving office with a balanced budget and increasing wages. Since then? We've seen constant tax breaks for the wealthy making the wage imbalance worse. Then the financial crisis of the Great Recession ruined the finances of tens of millions of American families. The last thing this country needed was another massive tax cut for the rich. It wasn't needed. We had a healthy, growing economy before the 2016 election.

    It fascinates me just how easy it is for people to forget all this stuff. I'm not even getting into how much cheaper college was at a public university in the '60's and '70's. Rents and food and gas were also very cheap. The highest rent I paid while living in mid-town and the Montrose area of Houston was $135 a month for a big 2 story house off West Gray that I split the rent on with a friend. That's with bills paid. The garage apartment my significant other moved in front of (which is how I met her, of course) cost me $65 a month, bills paid, and was 2 blocks from Hermann Park. We got a great apartment in an old house turned into a 4plex between Richmond and West Alabama in the Montrose area for $110, bills paid. Going to concerts and clubs was incredibly cheap. I could eat, pay rent, go to clubs and concerts, and do it with a part-time job at the Houston Post. Some of you have no idea what you missed. I was lucky.
     
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  9. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Yup, everything here is spot on.
     
  10. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Come on man, I've shown you the stats of where we are, where we came from and how we compare to both our American past, and our current peers. You just keep using empty talking points about how people need to *clap clap* do better.

    We live in a corrupted plutocracy, and things are getting worse. Things need to change or it's going to continue to get darker and darker for all of us.
     
    #110 ThatBoyNick, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  11. Roscoe Arbuckle

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    You know better. Or at least should at your age.

     
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  12. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member
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    There's plenty of problems with government, sure.

    There's also plenty of economic opportunity out there. For anyone who can work in the knowledge economy, that person is thriving.

    There's also plenty of opportunity in the trades. Heck, it's easier for someone who a two-year associates degree to make six figures or close to it, than it's ever been before.

    There's really not much excuse for not thriving economically in America today. If a person doesn't, he or she has some internal obstacle or challenge going on. And you can't blame that on that "corrupted plutocracy."

    Here's something else: people used to move when there weren't any jobs in their area/state. See: the Okies of the 1930s; but also many other examples. See: more recently, people moving to North Dakota to work in the shale oil drilling sector, and related businesses.

    My own parents moved multiple times to get better jobs. Not sure why people can't do that these days. But they don't for some reason. Again, I strongly suspect that the reasons are internal.
     
  13. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    I don't want to be rude, but you are giving super subjective takes that seem to be out of whack with reality and I'd be going in circles to bring up my earlier points again. I appreciate we agree on the Government having problems though.
     
  14. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Lmao PragerU

    Are you sure he's the one who should know better?
     
  15. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member
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    I appreciate the desire for civil convo.

    I'll conclude here by saying this: if somebody thinks or has the mindset that there is no economic opportunity, or that there is no possibility of getting ahead, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    My reply is that you should know better, whatever your age is. There's nothing "wrong" with posting an obvious truth. There is something a bit disturbing about those who relish ignoring it.
     
  17. Roscoe Arbuckle

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    I have a finance degree with an Economics minor who has been in the finance industry over 20 years.

    Pretty sure you're still in school...
     
  18. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Then why use a PragerU video? That’s a far right wing radio host channel that uses fake experts while pretending to be a university (they aren’t, at all). Their videos are down right embarrassing and filled with the worst takes imaginable.

    A minor in economics should mean (but does not guarantee) you are all the more edjucated in the topics discussed in this thread, but seeing as you might be trying to completetely disregard factual history perhaps you were miseducated or have just abandoned your learnings. I’m not sure finance is too related to the topics at hand, but it should definitely give you an advantage as someone who knows how to read numbers.

    I’m not in school, and I’m not sure why you keep trying to use age as a mean to belittle people for not following your seemingly faux view of our economic history.
     
  19. Senator

    Senator Member

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    Yup, you got it. On top of that, more consumption by more entitled youth in all regions, not just the developed world, so the have nots are more dependent on a centralized system. Either way, it’s dangerous to see gdp growth as a good thing when the minerals you mine to achieve it are always decreasing.
     
  20. Roscoe Arbuckle

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    Kid, I'm not even close to "Far Right." I definitely lean right, but mainly on financial issues. I'm pretty moderate on social viewpoints, so your assumption is incorrect.

    Also, no "J" in Education.

    You are being brainwashed if you thing PragerU is far right. If it were I woudn't share it nor agree with most of its points. But feel free to post any video from them that shows this assumption of yours.

    And, yes. Whether you admit it or not, I'd bet money you are still in school. But you are more than able to state what you do if not school.
     
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