If you could take out your crystal ball and fast forward 20 years from now how do think James will be remembered? Clutch fans is the only social site that I visit, so I don’t see what most of you guys see on Twitter, IG ect. My kids tell me some of what they read, and I follow links provided here, but I’m not as locked in to the national perception of James as most of you are. I’m old school so I still prefer just reading articles. I do have a lot of friends, family and old college buddies scattered throughout the country and one thing is certain. James is hated on a level that I don’t think I’ve ever seen for a player of his caliber. I hated Larry Bird with a passion, but I knew that he was a bonafide killer. My hate didn’t blind me to his greatness. It’s different than how James is viewed. Everyone knows that I’m a life long diehard Rockets fan so I get bombarded by folks telling me that he is a fake, and a trickster. Someone who the league has decided to let get away with basketball murder so it can improve its brand by giving the fans an ultimate villain to hate. He is viewed as someone who wouldn’t even be an all star if it weren’t for his flopping, and the refs ignoring his travels and offensive fouls. He is viewed as a coward. They say I am blinded by my fandom, and can’t see the truth. And this is just by people that I know. Most Rocket fans know better, so I don’t have to list the things that he does that make him a truly remarkable talent. To put it simply, James has a top 5 offensive skill set of all time and he is rising. But will he be remembered that way? Will he be recognized for his greatness, or will he become a punchline when people reference this era of basketball? Unfortunately I read some of the things being said on Twitter this morning through the links that a few of you provided, and it honestly depressed me a bit. I got a quick reminder of why I stay away from most social media. But it will truly be sad if James is remembered as some sort of phony or fraud instead of the great player that he has actually become. James needs a ring for sure. Sadly I don’t even think that would help his legacy. They would say that he manipulated the rules to get a ring or whatever kind of BS the fans and national media would come up with. Is this destined to be James Harden’s legacy?
if he wins a ring he’s set...don’t underestimate how much a title can change perception...if he has his usual dominant regular season and then wins a title + FMVP then he’s good I do think more people will start realize just how great he is once he’s gone
I think Larry Bird is a good indicator While he played .. . no one outside of Boston 'loved' him He was respected. . . but not liked or loved outside of Boston Fan wise that is Rocket River
The viral no-defense video from 2014 pretty much irrevocably ruined Harden's reputation. The media and casual fans have locked onto Harden as a punch-line, rather than universally praising him like Curry, Westbrook, etc. are. He's obviously going to the Hall of Fame and will be remembered as an elite player during his era, but there's always going to be the "....but he doesn't play any defense!!" and "...but all he does is ref-bait!!". He'll never shake that. His playoff success is also always going to be held against him. He's gone down to the Warriors every year he's faced them, with famous flame-outs like the 12 turnover game, the Spurs Game 6 disappearance, and the 0-27 from 3 game. Harden's playoff failures are obviously overstated, and he's largely been great, but from a legacy perspective, those are the games people remember.
Do you think that Kobe was good? How do you view him now? I suspect that Harden will be viewed in the future less favorably than Kobe, who was a controversial figure himself, although more of a media darling. Myself I think that Kobe was better than Harden, although not leaps and bounds beyond, just better. I ask because I feel that Kobe has gotten a bit of a raw treatment in the historical column, possibly because of his fans, possibly because of Shaq. But he was similar in term of the love him or hate him comparison. Harden is like that. Most people hate him, some people love him, few deny that he is great, but most like to complain about the way he gets it done, even if that is unfairly fueled by the narrative.
I am not deeming Kobe is substantially better but Kobe's approach to basketball is different. The so called 'KILLER INSTINCT'. He played thru the gravest of all injuries, he would play to his death no doubt. It was his life, his sanctuary when he faced divorce from Vanessa and faced the Trial. It was his Shelter! He still averaged 25 ppg during the hardest of his time. Harden never got to that because he ain't have that kind of responsibility off the court. He plays Bball because it is fun and he is elite at it from a guard standpoint. Kobe was also the perfect copy cat of MJ, Jerry West and others. Harden goes his own way, is by far the better facilitator but also much more Turnover prone. Spoiler The only similarity I see is that Kobe was 6'6 close to 6'7 while Harden is 6'5 and thiccer, both played SG during their career, Harden more of a combo guard while Kobe is a true SG. They both attack the rim and shoot jumpers. They both superstars. That all. Their body language and the look of their game is vastly different. Their background is vastly different Kobe was born into a championship dynasty and all. Harden was part of a special group, that is similar but he wasn't given the golden spoon, he had to earn it more.
He'll find a way to win a ring even if it's by leaving and teaming up with Durant. My guess is he ends up in top 5 greatest players to play in the 2010's. Time will mend his rep.
by and large, nba viewers are dumb AF and a big part of what makes harden great is the sheer volume of amazing plays he makes within a game, within a week, within a season etc and sadly the cherrypicked lapses/flops/travels on dumbass b****ing videos about him all over youtube will be what people reference most in the future
The guy who got all the calls and got away with a lot of stuff. Without all that, he would have just been so-so.
Bird is a great comparison... Once he retires the criticism will soften - and the accomplishments will receive accolades... but he will always have detractors - esp among the purists... He'll go down as top 25... not in the MJ/Kobe level... but highly regarded...
The low-information, hot-take commentators of ESPN and FS1 will always have that simplistic negative view of Harden. And as a result, so will the low-information fans. But that's OK. Those who know will know.
I don't really think Bird is a great comparison because there's a huge difference in the way that these two players are hated. You hated Bird, and so did a lot of people, but nobody discredited Bird with their hatred. Nobody was out there claiming that Bird wasn't actually any good, you KNEW he was good, and that's why you hated him. Same with Kobe, or Jordan, or anyone else, these guys were hated because of how good they were, people weren't trying to discredit them. I live in San Antonio, so I know a lot of Spurs fans here, and the majority of them legitimately think Harden is not a great player. It's a common belief that he would just be an average/above average 15-20 ppg scorer without all of his flopping. There are also a lot of people that view his flopping as cheating, and think it's a dishonest way to play the game. People are CONSTANTLY trying to discredit Harden, so that's why I think the hate for him is way different. I'm not really sure there's ever been a player like him where so many people hate him because they truly believe he is not a good player, he is a cheater, he doesn't play defense, etc etc. The only other player I can think of who gets hate from people who try to discredit his greatness, rather than hating their greatness, is Westbrook.
Good point about Bird. I guess this means that most fans really don’t think that James is that good. His legacy will be complicated to say the least. I hear the same things about how his ppg would drop by half if it weren’t for his “tricks”. If that’s the narrative, then his legacy will suffer greatly.
Sounds like the people close to you are dumb when it comes to basketball, just like the majority of casual fans. You listen to/read the right people out there and he gets his due respect. Even without a title his stats are gonna make him top 20 but I doubt anyone will actually put him in that group unless he gets 1.
