I've seen enough, LeBron is the GOAT

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Cash Cam, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    Man, that profanity attack was uncalled for. We here on CF strive to remain civilized and debate the merits of the argument without resorting to juvenile taunts.

    Anyway rookie you've been reported to the mods. Good luck with not getting banned.
     
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  2. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Well the west pretty easy too this year. I think maybe the spurs could have beat the cavs, and I am not sure if they could.
     
  3. Mr. Space City

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    When people bring up Lebron's finals record, why are they bringing up 2015?

    He lost his 2nd and 3rd best player. Any superstar would lose the NBA finals during those circumstances.

    How is that a negative for him?
     
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  4. el gnomo

    el gnomo Member

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  5. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    And in 2007 he played on basically a 10ish win level team where he was the only top 100 player
     
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  6. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    In a league where one player makes such a difference, how was there not an overwhelming talent gap when the other teams didn't have a 2nd option as good as Pippen? Some squads arguably didn't have a 2nd option as good as Grant (looking at you Knicks, with Starks). Please name Jordan's comps from 91-93 that could lose their 1st option and still win 50+ games.

    And I'm assuming you do realize the 96-98 Bulls were clearly a superteam, in any era?
     
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  7. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    I assume you feel the same way about Magic and the Lakers in the 80's?
     
  8. i3artow i3aller

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  9. VBG

    VBG Member

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    Basically 2011 Finals, Lebron sucked. Otherwise he's played at an all time great level in all the Finals he played in (well 2007 he played GOAT level a

    I do think Lebron is actually extremely lucky in terms of his final record.

    Ray Allen misses a shot and Draymond doesn't **** up, Lebron probably has 1 ring and that too in a lockout season. Would be interesting if his finals legacy was closer to Jerry West.


    The argument is more don't hold it against him that he lost in the Finals. For some reason losing to the Pistons is more impressive than losing in the Finals which is my issue.

    Brady keeps making the Superbowl and defeating pretty damn good teams so it doesn't matter.


    But I think if you put the Thunder/Spurs or even Clippers/Grizzlies in the East for the past 5 years they probably make 5 NBA Finals (assuming all healthy).
     
  10. Mr. Space City

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    And Lebron keeps making the finals and has deafeated some pretty damn good teams.

    Put Lebron on the clippers or spurs in the west and he's still making the finals.
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    Lebron's defense in game 5 was Hardenesque. And at least a couple of times it wasn't because he was tired, it was because he didn't want to risk getting dunked on.
     
  12. VBG

    VBG Member

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    I more meant if you put the Cavs in the West, I don't think they make the finals half the time. I still think Lebron is the best of the generation and at worse top 3 of all time. Combination of physical dominance + basketball IQ is just insane. He can do everything on the court at an elite level.
     
  13. Swish4fives

    Swish4fives Member

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    Lebron should have never ran Blatt outta town. The Cavs have literally no offensive system unless its Lebron creating everything or Kyrie creating his own shot. Meanwhile the Warriors bench unit could run beautiful offensive sets and still generate points. It was obvious everytime Lebron went to the bench the Cavs had no idea what to do on offense. If Lebron had embraced Blatts offense instead of installing a "yes man", he may have had a chance at goat status because lets face it the talent and raw numbers are on par with Jordan. Jordan's willingness to embrace whatever it takes even if it cost him his own ego is what seperates the two.
     
  14. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    I don't remember any semblance of an offense the 1st time blatt was there.

    I think MJ goat stance is hard to argue, but lets not romanticize him too much. MJ was an asshole. He got Doug Collins fired.
     
  15. Swish4fives

    Swish4fives Member

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    Yeah, it was well documented that he and Blatt were butting heads the entire year. Blatt was offered an assistant position with the Warriors before the Cavs based off of his offensive sets. Those Bulls teams played really great team basketball much like the Warriors and alot of it had to with Jordan embracing Jackson's triangle system over hero balling it like he was under Collins. I don't remember any of Lebron's teams playing great team ball. It always felt like he was doing everything or on super teams its like hes taking turns with guys like Kyrie and Wade instead of the team playing together.
     
  16. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    It was Krause that had a fued with Collins. MJ and Collins were always cool and MJ even asked for him to coach the Wizards.

    "A lot of people are saying `Why, why would you coach this team?' and I say, `It's easy because MJ called me on the phone and said I need you to come help me,'" Collins said. "I knew then that this was the place for me to be. Plus I love teaching the game, I love the competition, I love watching players grow. I had that joy with Michael as a player."

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. el gnomo

    el gnomo Member

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    LeBron def needed a yes-man. According to a Heat minority owner, if it was up to LeBron, Spo would've been gone too. To be fair, Riley denied this, but there was definitely something there.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. hakeemthagreat

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    Scottie Pippen wasnt a great scorer that could get 40 if he needed it. He was a great overrall player because of his D, and because Jordan PUSHED him to his max potential. Wade, Bosh & Love were all great BEFORE Lebron. When you strategically choose a team where there is a over abundance of talent, like Miami & current Cleveland, thats forming a super team. Not ONE of the Bulls teams were a super team. Who could you build a team around besides Jordan? Pippen came to Houston, then Portland & SUCKED. Kukoc? Nope lol. On the other hand Love was a 26 & 12 player. Wade was already a champion. Bosh was the highest coveted PF when he left Toronto (check his stats). Its stupid to call Chicago a superteam
     
  19. RocketDream

    RocketDream Member

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    Shocking, Pippen was worse outside of his prime. He was considered one of the several best players in the league the year Jordan went to play baseball and the team replaced Jordan (one of the four best players ever) with Pete Meyers (Pete ****ing Meyers!) and was still a title contender. In 1995, Pippen led the Bulls in points, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals. Yeah, that's a franchise player. Obviously, he wasn't going to lead the team in points scored in a season Jordan played the entire year, but no one would (except maybe Wilt Chamberlain).

    And that was before adding Dennis Rodman, too. The first Bulls threepeat wasn't a "super team" (but those teams aren't generally considered to be in the running for greatest team ever)--the second Bulls threepeat, with Hall of Famer Dennis Rodman in Horace Grant's place and Toni Kukoc as their top reserve absolutely was a super team.
     
  20. hakeemthagreat

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    Rodman was a fantastic rebounder and defender. He wasn't a guy you can build a franchise around. Same goes for Kukoc. Neither one of them are guys that'll give you incredible numbers. The Bulls weren't a superteam, they were a team that played super as a unit. Lebron's Miami championship teams were superteams. They had 3 players that were once considered franchise players. The Cleveland team as well. Big difference
     
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