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It's pretty evident we're a better team when Lin is the primary ball handler.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Geronimo, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Plus we have Parsons who is not a bad ballhanlder himself.
     
  2. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    Here's what I wrote a few days ago, slightly edited and updated with Lin's current numbers:

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=7365813&postcount=1843

    <table><tr><td>Statistic</td><td>Lin</td><td>Kidd</td></tr><tr><td>Year</td><td>2012-13</td><td>1995-96</td></tr><tr><td>Usage Rate</td><td>18.2</td><td>24.3</td></tr><tr><td>Points**</td><td>15.2</td><td>16.0</td></tr>
    <tr><td>Assists**</td><td>9.2</td><td>9.3</td></tr><tr><td>Turnovers**</td><td>4.0</td><td>3.9</td></tr><tr><td>Rebounds</td><td>6.1</td><td>6.6</td></tr><tr><td>Steals</td><td>2.1</td><td>2.1</td></tr></table>
    ** Adjusted for usage rate.

    Remember, these are all per-36-minute averages. We have to use these as Lin plays less than 36 minutes per game, and Kidd played more.

    I have scaled Lin's points, assists, and turnovers to Kidd's usage rate, as these are highly dependent on how often the ball is in your hands. Rebounds and steals, however, are largely independent of usage rate, so I have not scaled them.

    As you can see, Lin is tracking Kidd's career path almost perfectly. Are you saying that Kidd was garbage?
     
  3. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    Oops, I accidentally scaled Lin's rebounds when I shouldn't have. That line should read:

    Rebounds: 4.6 6.6
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    The (flawed, IMO) assumption here is that you can just scale up a player's usage arbitrarily without his efficiency taking a hit.

    You could scale up usage for lots of players, and they'll start looking like all-stars. Doesn't mean they have that kind of ability.
     
  5. lfw

    lfw Rookie

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    Just like the skeptics shouldn't be able to use 16 games to conclusively say Lin sucks, those exact 16 games shouldn't be used to show Lin is destined for greatness.

    Just my opinion.
     
  6. SuperStar

    SuperStar Member

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    I wonder sometimes if one can create stats for just about any player in the nba and make them comparable to any star. Like say if Raymond Felton has better stats then Kidd or comparable, is he the next Kidd as well?
     
  7. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    I have no idea what kind of player Kidd was during this time period so if I am wrong feel free to correct me anybody.

    But the issue with stats is that you have to apply context. Kidd when he was younger from the little I know was that he had a vision that was insane. Like he could literally see plays happening two steps ahead of people. They used to talk about how he had eyes on the back of his head because he would see things that nobody else could.

    Kidd was also a ridiculously smart basketball player like he has one of the highest BBIQ's in the NBA. Kidd is also insanely competitive probably one of the most competitive players in the NBA.

    That isn't to say that your Kidd comparison isn't somewhat rational because other people who are informed on the NBA have compared Lin to Kidd before.
    The rebounding is similar, the size, the defense, weak jumper etc. But for all the things that are the same there are things that are different as well. BBIQ, vision, playmaking etc. Am I saying that Lin definitely won't be as good as Kidd (no, nobody can say definitively what he will or will not be if you can please I need your services I want to win the lottery). People who say Lin will never be Kidd or Lin will definitely be Kidd are equally foolish.

    But once again Lin is a major work in progress to compare him to a future HOFer at this stage of his career with about 45 starts under his belt is just silly.
     
  8. kozmo

    kozmo Member

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    Thats an idiotic statement..... Rondo is averaging 4 turnovers a game...NICE TRY! i guess rondo sucks!
     
  9. AdrenaLINe

    AdrenaLINe Rookie

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    yes just stop it... most of these guys putting out the stats... would probably not have to put out the stats

    if fans didnt think their own Rocket player was garbage...

    I think most LOFs would tell you we cant tell you if he is gonna be the Next Jason Kid...

    but he aint going to be garbage or a joke...
     
  10. lfw

    lfw Rookie

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    Stats don't have any meaning without significant sample size and and understanding of what is being measured.
     
  11. langal

    langal Contributing Member

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    Stats comparing him to Kidd are just to demonstrate that he doesn't "suck". That's all... NOT claiming he is the next Jason Kidd.
     
  12. AirSwish

    AirSwish Member

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    I think the whole thing is flawed. Even Jeremy Lin would disapprove what you are doing. Just give up. Why can't you fans enjoy the whole experience? As soon as Lin has a bad game, the haters will come out and go for his throat and when he has good games, all his beloved fans will start comparing him with some superstar. Can't you see? These are bunch of noises. You just need to filter them out. So what if someone thinks Lin can't be a top Pg? CP3 is considered a top PG. Do we all think or have numbers to back that up? We don't need it. As long as Lin keep playing well and putting up numbers, fans will realize. So just stop the comparison, adjusting numbers. Enjoy the games, and a nice cold beer. The kid is playing well again.
     
  13. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    When I say Lin is tracking Kidd's career path, I mean it. Compare Lin last year versus Kidd's rookie numbers (remember to use only per-36-minute averages). This year, Lin is continuing on the same path. I'm definitely seeing a trend; aren't you?
     
  14. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    Very true. I am only saying that Lin has the <b>potential</b> to be a second Kidd.
     
  15. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    I'm saying it's only in potential that Lin could be a second Kidd. (Though Lin's adjusted assist numbers should be enough to show that he is plenty smart.)

    I bring Kidd up in response to those morons who say "Lin is a Joke!" or "Lin is a D-leaguer" or "Aaron Brooks is better!!!". Feel free to do the same! That Lin is verifiably tracking Kidd's career path should give the haters the hives.
     
  16. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    Exactly. Except that I am claiming that Lin is potentially another Kidd. But only in potential.
     
  17. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    When Lin doesn't suck, we are pretty good. He needs to prove that he deserves to be the "primary ball handler", which is a silly way to think about basketball, btw.
     
  18. khfxxx

    khfxxx Member

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    Lin is currently only an above average pg in the league. If Lin has the potential to be another Jason Kidd, A LOT of guys would have that potential as well. Nothing really special here.

    The "potential" doesn't really mean that much until you TRULY become the next Kidd. A lot of players can have that potential, but there's only one Jason Kidd. Your comparison is really meaningless and stupid.

    Actions speak louder than words. Just relax and watch him play.
     
  19. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    Well, which young PGs have anything like Kidd's numbers? Remember that Lin was tracking Kidd last year and is continuing to do the same this year. Of what other young PGs can you say the same? I think if you made a list, it would be a pretty elite group. And Lin belongs.
     
  20. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    I intend to enjoy every minute. :grin:
     

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