Is "Ball Dominance" Intrinsic?

Everything else equal, the more skills a player has, the better he is. This is just commonsense math.

Of course, the key is "everything else equal." If Player A and Player B are equally good at being ball dominant (BD), but Player A is good at off ball (OB) also while Player B can't play well (OB), then Player A is obviously a better player than Player B.

In reality, you seldom have two players that are "equally" good at anything. So you'll have to consider the overall effectiveness. If A is a 9 at BD and 4 at OB, B is a 7 at BD and 7 at OB, which is better? A is usually considered better because with good coaching, A can maximize his BD skill to a 9 and have someone else play the OB role, whereas B can only be maximized to a 7 either way. This is why most MVP must be elite (at least 9) at one thing rather than a jack of all trades but none elite (e.g.a bunch of skills at 6). I think the reason why most MVPs are elite at BD because ball domination by nature controls the offense. If your offense is great and you are the one who controls it, it makes your value that much easier to be recognized.

That's why quarterbacks and running backs are much more likely to be MVP than receivers.

 

I think being BD is actually harder than being Non-BD.

Being off the ball you get to rest. . . you get to lose focus from time to time. .
You teammates take some of the load.

Rocket River

 

Can anyone name guards/wings that played both ways effectively at some point during their careers? Nothing really comes to mind for me. Billups?

 

Being ball dominant isn't necessarily a bad thing, you just need to work the shaft at the same time.

 

Heh, your definition of non- "ball dominant" is "doesn't bring the ball up the court"

It's kind of hard to good things in basketball on offense without touching the ball (unless you are DMo)

 

Larry Bird

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but guys like Shawn Marion, Andre Iguodala, Vernon Maxwell, Kawhi Leonard, Michael Jordan (to an extent), Ron Artest, Gary Payton, Scottie Pippen, etc should count, right?

These are all guys that have been known for defensive intensity at some point, and could also create their own shot to some degree (unlike the Battiers, Batums, Arizas of the world.)

 

Are you talking about players that were good on offense and defense?

Or are you talking about players that played both guard/wing positions effectively?

 

Pretty sure he's asking the question in the OP: Ball Dominant offense versus Off-Ball offense. The Ray Allan/Reggie vs Harden/WB/MJ/Kobe

@Ziggy Along with Bird, I'll also add Durant to the mix. Actually, Curry does both quite well, too. Monte Ellis has done both in his career.

 

That would make more sense.... I didn't know why someone would ask for a list of two-way players.

 

Yes, and he didn't ask for two-way players. He said what players play both ways....in the context of the OP...then both ways means both styles....

 

In this context, would we categorize Tracy McGrady as ball dominant, or off-ball? Kind of a hybrid? He deferred to Yao about 40% of the time and had ball-handlers like Rafer Alston initiating plays.

How about Steve Nash? He had the ball in his hands almost every play, but never forced his own shots.

Maybe Lebron James?

 

When I hear "play both ways" I automatically think offense and defense, and I actually listed some players that fit that bill, but then I thought "why would he ask that in this thread?" and edited my post. lol.

 

Same. Minus the editing part. It's like asking "what other players are great on the block?" but at first you don't realize whether we're talking about defense or post-ups.

 

In the current scene, Durant and Curry are the most obvious examples of being elite at both styles, in terms of scoring. (And this is why Durant joining the Warriors is so dangerous, if/when they figure out how to play off each other.) In terms of playmaking, Harden trumps them both. But Harden hasn't shown that he could (or would) produce on the elite level playing OB.

 

Let's say you have a sales team ok, and your sales team has agents of different levels of ability and are also paid correspondingly. Now you have a million dollar deal coming up, which agent do you get to close the deal? Do you take turns and say ok it's time for my C level agent to work his magic let's hope he pulls through? No, you assign your A level agent to the case. Right after he closes the deal he goes to you and say boss I barely worked up a sweat let me handle the next job too do you let him do the next deal again? Obviously you do, as a company owner your priority is to make sure you make the sales above everything else. If he closes that just in time for the next deal then you assign the deal to him again, and you keep doing that until your agent gets tired or you have more deals to be made than he can handle by himself.

Being ball dominant is a lot like that, you want your best player handling the ball as much as possible because the ball in Harden's hands is more likely to go in the hoop than it is in Ryan Anderson's or even Eric Gordon. Asking Harden to play off the ball when he is the best on-the-ball player on the squad is not really the way to go if you want to win a ring. On a team like GSW with multiple A level players of course you want to share the ball because the difference between Steph going for ISo and KD going for ISO isnt really all that large. But the Rockets don't really have multiple allstars even Eric Gordon handling the ball is markedly inferior to Harden handling the ball in terms of offense generation.

As for intrinsic or not I think for most superstars it is intrinsic for them to handle the ball, that's because guys like Kobe, MJ, Tmac, TD, Hakeem etc. all these guys were focal points of their bball teams growing up so they grew up always getting the most touches. However once they get to the NBA it will all depend on who they are playing with and the gameplan of the coach.I don't think it is an issue unless the guy isn't good enough to handle the volume of touches he is receiving. For example MJ had a high amount of FGAs and was initiating the Bulls offense but it didn't matter because his efficiency was still high and he was converting Bulls possessions at a high rate. OTH Westbrick is breaking the record for usage rating but his efficiency is really low, that's an example of a ball dominant player being detrimental to the team.