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Impeachment???

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by cml750, Nov 6, 2018.

?

Impeach Trump?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    That is the PG version.
     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  2. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    upload_2019-7-24_18-12-18.png
     
    dachuda86 likes this.
  3. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    If the rest of the neocons and neolibs would follow his example, we'd have a better world.
     
  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  5. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Os Trigonum likes this.
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    There is a saying that if you try to kill the King make sure you kill the King. That is clearly what is in Pelosi's mind and up until a few weeks ago I agreed with her. The guy who has changed my view is Rep. Justin Amash. His question "if we don't impeach in a case as blatant as this what is impeachment for?" From the Federalist papers and other commentary it is very clear to me that the Founders knew that a Trump type character could come to power and that this was what impeachment was meant for. In fact I would put violations of the Emoulment Clause ahead of Obstruction of Justice for a case for impeachment.

    Also I fully understand that the Senate most likely won't remove Trump from office following an impeachment vote and that there is a risk that Democrats will also suffer politically like Republicans did in 1998 during the Clinton impeachment. I would tell Pelosi though there is another risk besides political backlash from a failing to remove Trump from office. That is appearing weak and indecisive leading to losing control of your caucus. In my mind it would be best to do impeachment sooner rather than later so it doesn't linger into the primaries.
     
    Rashmon likes this.
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Clearly he has done things illegal and SHOULD be impeached, but they don't have the votes, so, sure file for impeachment - put it to a vote, watch it die, and then close the book and work on beating him in the election and let him face charges when he is out of office.

    DD
     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    And this is why you should never be a politician, with all due respect. Because Pelosi is 100% right. You do not throw salvos at an enemy that does nothing but put a small dent in their armor and make you look desperate and weak. It's a foolish strategy - one that can tip the balance to a Trump victory in 2020.

    Some might argue that not impeaching is against the spirit of what our founders wanted. That is is a betrayal to constitutional duty and history.

    They may be right. But Congress isn't there right now for these reasons. They are there to save this nation from a dangerous man. Trump is dangerous. And if anyone doesn't see that they are truly fool. A victory by Trump in 2020 would do untold damage to this country. Much damage has already been done to many agencies and institutions. Foreign gov'ts are continuing to compromise both our elections and other agencies. We are potentially witnessing the decline of America as a superpower and four more years of that might be too much for another president to reverse afterwards. We should not be so arrogant as to think that this country is impervious to downfall.

    This man must be stopped at any cost. And impeachment now does not accomplish that. What does help is to continue to investigate him and drag it out, continuing to let bad news about Trump spill out and damage him, and tax him. It unnerves him and keeps him off balance. And that's what the Dems should do. And if they do impeach him, it should be given right before the election to embarrass him the most and motivate the base the most. Maximize everything. Because in my view, Trump is an existential threat.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I agree with most of what you say and fully acknowledge the political risk. I also agree that I shouldn't be a politician. There is a reason I haven't run for public office even though I've been asked too.

    Since Trump has been elected I've been concerned about the philosophical underpinnings of this country. My concern has greatly deepened in the last few months. The Founders saw this problem and provided a remedy for it. This is one for the sake of those principles Trump should be impeached, if nothing else than for a statement to history that there were those who stood for the Constitution and those who stood for con man..
     
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  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    And when I said you shouldn't run for political office - believe me that is a compliment. You have far too much integrity and far too honest to ever be a successful politician. That said, that does not mean you shouldn't be a leader.

    To state the obvious I am far more cynical than you. While impeachment is the right thing to do from an integrity standpoint, it isn't the best thing to do from a human standpoint. People are suffering because of this man. On the border, in the countryside, and in cities. There is more ethnic violence. And he is stoking a division that may not heal. Trump is an enemy ultimately to everyone - because his policies will hurt nearly everyone at the end of the day except for his family and cronies. Just like any other mad dictator.

    Impeach him, but do it with the support of the country. Do it when he is at his worst and his loyal friends in the Senate are shaken and put in a tough position of having to appease their base or face certain defeat if they oppose. Use it as a political advantage.

    History will not care about principles. Even Gandhi manipulated the rules to his favor. Our founding fathers if they saw what was happening would realize they made a mistake in how they structured things - and would have found a way to prevent the judicial system from being so politically swayed
     
  11. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Castro made an excellent point on impeachment tonight.

     
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I keep on seeing people on other threads saying that the only reason why people call Trump a racist is because the Russia thing fell on its face. I’ve read the Mueller report and listened to all of his testimony and he pretty much is begging for Congress to impeach. He doesnt outrightly say it because he is bound by his own position as a servant of the DOJ but the report is very clear that Trump committed obstruction of justice and welcomed and sought foreign interference in the election. This is on Pelosi and senate Republicans for not following through. This is a classic case of you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
     
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  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Mueller gave a road map to impeachment.
     
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  14. Buck Turgidson

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    Oh, you know all you big tough gun totin' republicans sit down to pee. Don't lie.
     
    mdrowe00 likes this.
  15. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    So true, and they are viewing impeachment all wrong. It’s all about removal from office when it should be about documenting evidence and presenting to the American people. Not providing articles of impeachment as a core historical record of presidential criminality is a massive disservice to the country.

    I’ve also read the report and if the American people knew the facts the Democrats wouldn’t lose a single vote in 2020. It’s actually bad politics not to impeach. The people who cannot be moved by obvious facts of criminality and (frankly worse) unpatriotic acts of selling out the country for personal gain, were never going to NOT vote for Trump in 20 anyways.

    Do your job Congress and stop overthinking the politics of everything.
     
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  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Since when have political systems been driven by morality?
     
  17. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Why isn’t this **** show being discussed?
     
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Because everyone knows Trump is a criminal that deserves to be impeached but that Republicans in the Senate will burn this country down before they would vote to remove him from office.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  19. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    Be the drainage you want to see in the world.
     
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    The main takeaway from yesterday was really about the loyalty of Trump support in Congress from the Republicans & how they would burn down the halls of Congress before they would allow for Congress to do its job to hold Trump accountable.

    What we saw yesterday was a S$%# Show. You had a witness daring Congress to hold him in contempt, tweeting out self promotion during the break, and then clowns like Jim Jordan making an a$$ out of themselves to try and get people to tune out because it was such an embarrassment.

    Not a shock that they'd do this, but its still an embarrassment.

    Dems in the House are getting a ton of flack from the media, and everyone else but they just have to do their jobs. In the end, I do think articles of impeachment that tell the story of Trump's lawlessness with as much facts as they can get will be good for the country in the long run & won't hurt the dems in 2020. Everyone can vote however they want, but Congress has a job to do. Do it, and ignore the BS. Produce the most thorough articles of impeachment you can provide & force through the courts the power your exercise to get the facts.

    Oh and start fining and holding people in contempt. Make Trump witnesses bet on Trump staying president for life because if he doesn't win the election, all of those witnesses that are held in contempt are now with a new AG are in a hell of alot of hot water.
     

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