Ignoring midrange will kill us

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by OTMax, Oct 11, 2017 at 10:31 PM.

  1. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    I understand what you are saying but hail mary 3s are actually what we are best at. You can't expect Ariza, Anderson and co. to take step back mid range J's the only one who can do that are Cp3 and Harden. Like I said having mid range shooters actually make other shots harder cuz the mid range guy and his defender are in close proximity to other shooters. What this means is if Cp3 and Harden start taking mid range shots Anderson, Ariza etc. would have a harder time shooting their 3s. This whole team is built around Harden and CP3 either driving it in or doing PnRs and then passing to wide open 3 pt shooters, we didn't get ISO players who can do mid range shots. So when Harden and Cp3 aren't doing what they are supposed to do the other players can't do their thing which is shoot wide open 3s. Rather than just focusing on what Harden and Cp3 can do by themselves, you need to look at the whole team offense to see why Harden and Cp3 don't take mid range shots even if they can do so.

    WB hogging the ball is him taking a lot of mid range shots, that's what he does that's who he is. If you had Harden or Cp3 taking the same midrange shots that WB is doing then basically you have another WB on this team which what you already said is a 1st round exit. As for OKC talent, last year before the season started everybody was saying OKC had a lot more talent than Houston they said OKC was top 4 at least. So that tells you the talent between the two teams are at least equal or it is in favor of OKC. The problem is Houston maximized their talent that's why they are top 3 and OKC wasted all their talent that's why they got 4-1 in the playoffs.
     
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  2. OTMax

    OTMax Member

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    Transition defense has been bad, but is a matter of effort and positioning. Offense is schemes, mentality, style and one that is more worrisome since we won’t be great defensively anyway.

    I’m glad people are not just waving this off in general. To those saying we’ve had a top 20 offense of all-time are missing the point and to those pre-season screamers know that this was an issue last year too..

    With CP3 of course it’s an adjustment but I just fear he has completely bought into threes and layups and adjusted to the point where he won’t be put in a position to succeed from mid-range.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Yes, we have to diversify, otherwise we are too easy to guard in the playoffs.

    DD
     
  4. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    I saw Memphis taking a lot of 2 yesterday. They had a nice mix of 2s and 3s, it was very balanced.

    They scored 89 points and lost.
     
  5. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    They are not the Houston Rockets - and have smaller expectations, this is the definition of a straw man argument.

    The Rockets need some diversity, not a lot, but need to be a triple threat - otherwise, teams will camp the 3, put a big man in the middle and shut us down....

    DD
     
  7. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    If defenders can charge and run opponents off the 3 pt line why can't they do the same to the mid range shooter? Like I said the mid range shooter will be a lot closer to the defender wherever he is than if I were standing at a 3 pt line, so why is my defender having an easy time running me off the 3 pt line but then he can't cover a mid range shooter who is actually closer to him?

    In your scenario where your help rotates to the basket without sticking to his mark like a dumbass what's preventing my teammate from going to the other side of the 3 pt line and shooting there? You can shoot 3 pters across the who 3 pt line, if your defender actually goes to the paint and leaves you alone why can't you move further away?

    Just use logic, do the Spurs wants the Rockets to win or lose? Well they want the Rockets to take mid range shots, aka the worst shot in bball. So if you do what the Spurs want you to do will you win or lose the game? This is just like MMA bro, the opponent is a jiujitsu expert and lies down on the ring, you want to join him on the ground or keep it standing? You are basically saying let's forget everything we stand for and the reason we got 3rd seed in the regular season and then do what the Spurs want us to do and take the shots they want us to take. WTF.
     
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  8. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    First of all welcome back. Secondly the triple threat is already 3 pt shots, drives to the paint and pass to the open guy. Finally if the opponents can camp the 3 why can't they defend the paint? Defenders go to where the shooters are, if Harden and Cp3 take mid range shots and make them consistently then the defenders will just follow them to the mid range line and it is the same scenario you outlined except worse, because instead of having the paint open so people can drive inside you actually have people there in the mid range area which makes it harder to penetrate inside.
     
  9. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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    This is correct.
     
  10. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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    it's about making the defense respect you. It doesn't mean we have to take midrange shots, it just means we need to make the opposing defense understand that we can. This also plays into the whole analytics thing too, because I think when you can force a defense to respect you from every part of the court you also open up more opportunities to score from other places.

    It's sort of like the Astros. They use to be a high strikeout team but they hit a ton of home runs. Now, they're a low strike out team that is capable of getting on base and making pitchers work while still hitting home runs.
     
  11. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    its also about taking what the defense is giving you. a big reason why a lot of mid range isn't being taken is bc defenses are loading the paint area bc of guys like harden. that's why loading up on REAL shooters was so critical around harden. Picking up cp3 makes this that much worse for defenses bc both of these guys attack the rim with ease and are capable of getting into the painted area with ease. it's way to simplistic for all the guys to say oh we just need to add midrage shots to the arsenal. No they don't. not if its a terrible shot. if its a good shot then yeah. its actually an option in a few of their sets but for good reason its last
     
  12. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    We should not base it upon how bad or how good we were in Preseason.....once the Season starts we shall evaluate anew.
     
  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Chris Paul is the best mid range shooter in the game, teams respect that.
     
  14. mightybosstone

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    I think everyone is overreacting a bit to four preseason games. I've got to think they're really pushing 3-pointers in the preseason to work on their shots from out there and to play the most Morey version of basketball they possibly can. But when the regular season starts, surely they'll take those uncontested mid-range shots when they're there (unless they can take a step back and get an extra point out of it).
     
  15. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    Those percentages are with him taking relatively few 3s and lots of midrange shots. He uses the midrange to get in rhythm and once he is in a groove he will shoot the 3. His 3pt% will go down if he replaces rhythm midrange shots with contested 3s.
     
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  16. zksb09

    zksb09 Member

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    If the probability of hitting a wide open 2 is greater than 1.5 times the probability of hitting a contested 3, then I don't think Morey's math works.
     
  17. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    Not anymore. He's take exactly 0 midrange shots in his 3 games so far.
     
  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member

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    you should so totally tell him that then. ;)
     
  19. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Everyone wants a little bit more diversity. But let's not say there is a silver bullet defense against MDA's system run by Paul and Harden

    Hell even last year there wasn't

    That is the defense OKC played and we whooped them 4-1.

    GSW and SAS knew better than attempt OKCs gimmick defense and do not camp at the line. They send help like a real defense and try to take away the Harden drives by helping off the shooters.
     
  20. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Doesn't matter how many he has taken. He can hit them, therefore teams have to respect it.

    You think if Anderson didn't take any threes for 3 games, teams would stop closing out?
     
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