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If we trade Shane, we lose an identity...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by RudyTBag, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    Shane, Luis, and Chuck, IMO, should never be traded...

    We are the most classy, the hardest working, and the most determined bunch of players around. We have a championship foundation and attitude, that I want to see passed down for years to come. If we deal Shane, we risk losing everything that we have been spoiled enough to have over the years. Every player is ready to compete, and pour their hearts out for Houston, EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. THAT is NOT normal!!!! That is a testiment to our veteran leadership, and the roots that JVG put in this squad. Do you remember when Rick first got here? He was just RAVING at how hard his team plays and how ready they are to compete at all times...

    This may be a different thread, but I do not believe that these players should be dealt.

    Shane-

    1. Too much leadership, IQ, hustle, and determination to trade.
    2. I strongly suspect that we lose "our Rockets" if we lose this guy.
    3. He brings too much in terms of professionalism and dedication, and that is what rookies need to see in this league...

    Luis-

    1. Just a winner
    2. Has a TON of good basketball ahead of him...

    Chuck-

    1. Best post defender in the league
    2. Great role model for what a "Rocket" should be.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tracy-(For other reasons)

    1. It will be impossible to get equal value in a trade.
    2. His expiring contract will not help our situation, as his talent is irreplaceable in free agency with the amount of money we will have.
    3. Just turned 30, history says that this is championship time.
    4. He is working hard this offseason, Could he have figured it out?
    5. Will need to be re-signed for us to get a ring? (Hopefully we get a "Hometown Discount"?)
    6. I am no "Tracy fan", but his talent has us by the balls. If he goes, so does our championship aspirations for the next decade...

    Yao-

    1. Near impossible to find "championship level" centers.
    2. Great man, hard worker, role model.
    3. Untradeable for many reasons basketball and non-basketball related...



    In other words, Tracy and Yao is still "on" in my mind.


    That leaves us with Trevor Ariza, Carl Landry, Kyle Lowry, Aaron Brooks and a heap of unproven rookies. Oh yeah, and 5-6 million dollars worth of trade filler(Barry+Cook). It is my hunch, that these are the players that DM is looking to deal to get us that third star...DM has been talking up Trevor Ariza like crazy, Aaron Brooks could not have higher value, DM DID try to go after Rubio, interesting.

    Think about this, (And this could be any "star/soon to be star" player)

    If DM called (whoever) up, and offered a combination of Trevor Ariza, Carl Landry, and either Kyle Lowry and/or Aaron Brooks for (Beasley? Amare? Kmart? Granger? etc....) is that not a legit offer? I bet you that Pat Riley would think long and hard *snicker* about that...

    Just like fantasy basketball or NBA 2K9:), DM is collecting assets, and once he makes his deal, he will do it all over again.


    But we will still have...

    Luis Scola
    Shane Battier
    Chuck Hayes
    Yao Ming
    Tracy McGrady

    And whatever PG is still remaining.


    And our third all-star...


    And most importantly, our identity...
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I would like to point out that Tracy, Yao, Shane and Luis are not that old...
    It seems like a ton of posters want to put these guys in a rocking chair, and deal for more young role players. I would go as far as to say that THIS is STILL the foundation and core of the team. These guys are all about 30, how old were KG/PP/Ray when they won rings?
     
    #1 RudyTBag, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  2. bobbysikora

    bobbysikora Member

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    Great post! Lots of good info!

    I'd like to include that like Scola was a steal for us, so was Aaron Brooks. Brooks and Scola were huge in the playoffs and Brooks should be on the most improved player list next season.
     
  3. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    Thanks!
    I love Aaron Brooks, and I would love for him to be the starter for the decade or so. However, I do think getting that 3rd guy is the most important right now.

    As far as Battier is concerned, Ariza is much more valueable to a team looking to rebuild, which is the only way we can grab a younger all-star imo...
     
    #3 RudyTBag, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  4. VBG

    VBG Member

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    I agree. Shane Battier basically characterizes our team. A never say die attitude. A giving it all attitude. Amazing commitment to defense.

    Battier is an excellant leader.
     
  5. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    Sorry. I am with you on most of your comment but I cannot see why we gave Trevor a 5 - year contract and deal him the next moment.
    Shane and Luis are valuable players without a doubt but I think you cannot be blind about their age, they are not getting younger. In 2-3 years I am not sure if a Shane or Luis becomes injury prone. You'll never know.
    IMO if we deal somebody, we better not deal them all and we are supposed to keep Chuck because he comes cheap anyway.
     
  6. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    Mostly agree.

    Shane and Luis are completely different kettles of fish though. Shane is a perimeter defensive expert, Luis is a genuinely good PF at the NBA level who hustles his heart out and can generate his own offence if needs be. Ariza makes Battier that much more expendable - however I'm not saying I'd deal Shane definitely.

    Luis is infinitely more valuable than pretty much any other fit player on this team at the moment.

    Landry is a fairly "dealable" piece - he's not a starter on a contender, but yet he's young enough to be tantalising for a team to try him out. But I'm not sure what we'd get in return that we'd want?
     
  7. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    The word identity is hard to define. Because I still think Shane Battiers are kind of a JVG system player who can fit into an Adelman's system but they are replaceable somehow. Battier's defense is fabulous but is too hesitant on the offensive end alot of times except his 3 point shooting.
    In RA's system a player like a more mobile version of Artest, an offensive and a defensive player would be an ideal fit IMHO.
    He stresses both, offense and defense, but he is more adept at offense. I could be wrong. It is the question if we keep all our old defensive minded players or try to find one or two of those two way players who I suppose will be younger.
     
  8. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Interesting post, and I agree to an extent.

    BTW - Ariza is untradable (until at least 12/15 or so).

    I could envision Riles and DM the GM talking, with PR making the call to try and acquire Battier. I think a deal with him and the expirings for Beeze and Haslim is not farfetched.

    I believe Landry and B'cats could be destined.

    McGrady is a whole other story. Does he suddenly 'get it'? For his sake, I hope so. Or is he suddenly wanting to 'get it' - his next, and possibly last, big payday? What will the man be like after signing his next deal?

    I believe the major moves of the off-season are complete. Potential mega, landscape affecting deal pieces like Amar'e and Bosh...and TMac are not being moved before the new year, probably not til February. Or July.

    The biggest move maybes are of the Shane caliber guys. Landry, Lowry and the expirings could conceivably move before training camp. Do the Rox not have more contracts than possible slots? That will need to be sorted.
     
  9. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    Chuck is a life Rocket:)

    If we are going to hold on to Tracy, Ariza or Battier would have to be involved in a deal that would net us another star. That is assuming we go after another star. I think we HAVE to add another star. Battier/Ariza+Landry+PG? would net us that star...But then again, maybe it wouldn't!:)
     
  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    Personally I hate to lose Battier because he is a consumate pro, a great help and position defender and a leader in the locker room. I still cannot look away from the business side and the bigger picture, Battier's talent level is limited.
     
  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    IMO you have to give Trevor time to develop into an near borderline allstar to pull it through
     
  12. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    I am glad someone else likes this...
    Beeze will be a star, and has superstar potential.

    Miami is in a tough spot. By the time Beezy develops, is it too late? If they do not win, will DWade bolt? A Landry+Shane+Lowry deal would be VERY tempting and would make the Heat a contender in the East...

    Rockets could throw out a nasty line-up, and if it does not work out, you could always rebuild around Brooks, Beezy and Ariza...Hmmm. That was fun speculation:), Off-season fun I guess...
     
    #12 RudyTBag, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    wow I can see Ariza alley oop it to Aaron or vice versa
     
  14. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Yep, me too. Altho I think Landry + Lowry are too much sweetener; Cook + BB seems righter. or some combo.

    I believe Beeze will grow into Duranthood. Be nice if it were at the Toy Shop. Plus, the guy is without a position. He could create mismatches at 2, 3, or 4 depending on (mis)match-ups...
     
  15. HPD

    HPD Member

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    we have "T-BAG" still .....................
     
  16. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Uh, no we don't. Not even close, actually. We have two broken players earning max contracts, one with a chronically broken foot and the other with a chronically broken attitude. We have too much money tied up in a defensive specialist and we have a nice power forward who'll probably kill our cap space if we re-sign him.

    And regardless of what the CF cap gurus say, I still think Morey wants to be a player next Summer. It's one of the reasons he's acquiring so many high production low salary role players, so if we loose Shane or loose Scola, we'll still have enough pieces to fit around a guy like Bosh or someone else.

    And anyone who doesn't think the Rockets plan to ditch Tracy simply isn't paying attention. Just take a look at the Rockets cap since Morey came on board. Each year it has shrunk a bit more. Seriously, you think this is by accident?

    Nope, Tracy is gone, gone, gone, and I expect the Rockets to try and move Shane, while his value is high. The only player I'm less sure about is Scola. My guess is that the Rockets don't want to overpay him but are concerned they might have to, so it wouldn't surprise me to see them move him, though it wouldn't surprise me as much if they didn't. On Tracy and Shane, I'd be very surprised if they weren't moved before the deadline, very surprised.
     
  17. Pringles

    Pringles Member
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    We lost an identity when we lost Artest.

    But I see your point.
     
  18. ILoveTheRockets

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    Shane proved in the playoffs that his lack of offensive ability hurt the Rockets in the playoffs more than his defensive production helped.

    Shane is one of the most classiest players to ever suit up for the Rockets. It takes effort on both ends of the court, and sad to say, but Shane doesn't hold up his end on the offensive side.
     
  19. djohn2oo8

    djohn2oo8 Member

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  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    I admit Artest brought Mental Toughness, some brawn and Intensity.
    the difference is he never intended to commit himself long time to really identify himself with the franchise
    Battier has quietly become a houstonian I would say although he played for Memphis.
     
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