I think he's trying to say he helped him become the bench player Pippen to the HOF Pippen we all know. Watch any Pippen highlight video and you can see the influence MJ had on Pippen from technique and footwork in the post down to the posing of the hand in his dunks. The physical talent was there, and i agree with the other poster that MJ gave him the drive and helped train him both offensively and defensively. Dude plays just like Jordan just with less grace but still more grace than LeBron. Show me where he played like that in college or Pippens first few seasons with the Bulls
And where is the support for that? Jordan gave Pippen drive? The same guy that loved ball so much he worked his way from team manager to a top draft pick? Jordan helped train him? Jordan, not the Bulls coaching staff, but Jordan? What are you basing that on? He won the college dunk contest. Nothing mentioned here reconciles with what you are saying. Pippen was always an elite and graceful athlete.
I didn't say he wasn't an elite athlete. I'm saying a lot of the way prime Pippen played was basically copying MJ moves and he was athletic enough to pull a lot of it off. Pippen is a beast and could easily put up LeBron type of stats if given the same USG% as LeBron in todays small ball NBA. Were getting even more off track. The only reason i came into this thread was to say MJ's conference was better than LeBron's conference and to disagree with LeBron being sudden GOAT if Cleveland beats GS which i think they will. As mentioned by a poster in this thread....Dirk without another all star destroyed prime LeBron, Wade and Bosh, so does that make Dirk GOAT?
Definitely... Top 5 in points and assists when it's all said and done.. Maybe top 3 in those categories
Kobe copied all of MJ's moves. That doesn't mean Jordan made Kobe. Guys emulate other players moves all the time. Bottom line, stop giving Jordan credit for another player becoming great. Jordan didn't make Pippen a freak athlete. Jordan didn't teach him how to run point. Jordan didn't teach him how to play defense. He had a crazy work ethic before he got to Chicago. Pippen was a freak athlete with PG skills and he was very focused on improving his game, which is how he went from a tiny college to a top prospect that everyone was drooling over. All him, not Jordan.
We can all go back and forth on MJ and LBJ, but at the end of the day one guy quit on the entire sport twice and left to play baseball. To add insult to injury he came crawling back on his knees after he couldn't hack it. Is the best ever player in basketball a mediocre reject of baseball? Wtf is that, thats like saying Basketball's best is just baseball's trash. In a sport that always talks about competitiveness, how can you slam Lebron for forming a super team when your GOAT is a two time quitter of the sport? Not to mention a hypocrite who says he wants to beat Magic and Bird but then plays with the 2nd best wing player of his era? I dont see any of these guys defending Dwight, Tmac or Harden for quitting on one game. Well MJ quit the entire sport at least 2 times, that's way worse in my book. Quitting then coming back, quitting again and coming back again. Thats just wishy washy behavior if it was a star today who did that he would be crucified. Larry Sanders retired just 1 time and so many people don't want him back. This dude retired and came back 2 frigging times but because he is MJ its ok. WTF
Ok what was his excuse for the 2nd retirement? Did his mom die and her dream was for MJ to play golf or something? I know I'm making light of it but people go through terrible things in their lives. Ryan Anderson's wife killed herself, you didn't see Anderson retire and do whatever his wife's dream for him is supposed to be. I'm sorry for MJ seeing his dad get murdered but at the same time MJ was already a grown ass man by the time it happened. Was his dad still blindly insisting MJ quit being a star in basketball and go to baseball? I don't think so. Maybe if I'm MJ I'd be more concerned with getting justice for my dad's murder or moving on with my life rather than leaving everything to go do something totally out of left field. Imagine if you were 9 years old your mother tells you that her dream is for her son to go and be a Catholic priest so there is a holy man in the family. 26 years later your mom is murdered and you suddenly divorce your wife, abandon your kids, sell all your belongings and then pack up and go to a monastery. Then 1 year later you realize what a dumbass you are and go back to the real world. That's basically what happened to MJ. If it were some random player and not Mr. Space Jam you guys would be mocking him or wouldn't want him back, just look at all the comments Sanders got. And if his dad really wanted him to play baseball to the point that he will leave basketball behind then why did MJ come back? Surely the desire of his dad isn't just "Play professional baseball just for 1 season then do whatever you want"? If he really wanted to do what his dad wanted him to do he would have stuck at baseball. First he quit on basketball. Then he quit on his dad's dream. Then he quit on basketball again. Not only is MJ a three peat champion, he is also a three peat quitter.
Why isn't it quitting? Whether he won a ring or not is irrelevant, he still left behind the entire sport to go and do something else ie. QUITTING. Quitting is born out of being mentally weak, Harden/Dwight/Tmac quit because they were too tired to play hard mentally and emotionally. Same thing is true for MJ, sure he had his reasons but Harden/Dwight/Tmac also had their own reasons for quitting and nobody gave them any slack. Harden/Dwight/Tmac didn't wake up one morning and decide they'd quit for one game, that event is a conflux of different reasons same as MJ. CF labels Harden/Dwight/Tmac as quitters without any context so why is MJ suddenly being given the special treatment? He quit. 2 times. End of story.
How is Michael Jordan mentally weak... So basically MJ should of grieved the same way you would of grieved? Makes sense. So being on top of the world with NBA championships/Olympic Medals/awards and then suddenly having your father taken away from you and then deciding to quit the game of basketball is being weak minded?
He thinks Steve Kerr is near all star level caliber and that a team of Luc Longley, Kukoc, Buechler, Harper, Kerr would wreck the NBA on their own and he keeps bringing up that MJ is a quitter without any context. This is all evidence of someone who never lived during the Jordan era and goes by Youtube arguments from LeBronies and Kobe stans in the comments sections of NBA videos. He's either completely clueless or just trolling. Either way, don't get caught up in it like i did yesterday. Waste of time.
Yes? Being strong mentally means being able to handle adversity, adversity includes losing your parent. Having your dad pass away is sad, but lots of people have their loved ones pass away and they don't go full tilt. Pat Bev lost his grandpa and he didn't quit basketball and be a monk in Tibet. Look if leaving basketball wasnt a decision done in a moment of weakness why'd he come back after only 1 year? And then leave again after 3 years? And then come back again? I know criticizing MJ is hard for MJ stans like Caesar, but take away the name of MJ and look at just his actions you wouldn't be defending him.
What context do you need? His dad passed away? Why'd he come back after only 1 year then? Then leave after 3 years again? Then come back again? Yes please enlighten me what context explains MJ retiring and unretiring from basketball?
After you win a championship. You can call it quitting...I'll say mission accomplished. When we talk about quitting in basketball, we mean mid game or during an all important deciding match. I'll take a quitter that has just won his city a championship over your Harden/Dwight/Tmac.
I stopped reading your essay of a post, after your first sentence. You're literally putting down the fact that he has 6 rings. SIX. How many do Malone and Stockton have? Barkley? Hell, even Shaq only has 4. Hakeem, 2. Imagine this sentence in every other sport, and realize how stupid you sound. "He only won 6 superbowls. He only won 6 Stanley Cups. He only won 6 World Series. He only won 6 Masters in golf." I normally don't try to put people on blast here, because people usually have a point. You, sir, do not.
They don't have to "crush" them. They just have to win. I think you can already make the case that Lebron is better (especially for his age compared to Jordan at the same). I understand picking Jordan and could go either way, but there is a case. If, however, Lebron keeps playing like this and the Cavs win another finals, he has locked up GOAT status in my eyes.
So were just going to leave it at 4 titles with 1 of them being in a short lockout season as the greatest of all time standard? (won't count Russell and co) MJ(6x), Kareem(6x), Magic (5x), Kobe(5x), Duncan(5x), Shaq(4x), BUT LeBron winning his 4th = GOAT b/c....he's currently relevant!
