1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

I love Asik, but trading him makes too much sense IF we land Dwight

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by 2016Champions, Jun 23, 2013.

?

If we get Dwight, should we trade Asik?

  1. Yes

    180 vote(s)
    50.8%
  2. No

    174 vote(s)
    49.2%
  1. 2016Champions

    2016Champions Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    46
    It's easy to be seduced by the thought of two defensively dominant 7 footers protecting the paint and grabbing every rebounding in sight, but in our case there would be a price to pay for such luxury, and I'm not talking about the $28.9 million in combined salary Dwight Howard and Omer Asik would be making next year (assuming we sign Dwight for the max). The price I speak of is floor spacing or lack thereof, and the drop in offensive efficiency that would come with it. With two practically range-less big men on the floor at the same time, the defense will go up, but the offense will go down more than the defense will go up. Especially if you believe that I do that Terrence Jones has the makings of a very good defender in this league, he's slightly bigger than Al Horford but he moves like Josh Smith.

    Zach Lowe once wrote a great article about how "packing the paint is the is the NBA defensive strategy forcing coaches to re-imagine scoring", illustrating a big part of the reason the NBA is becoming more and more perimeter orientated--the easiest way to punish defenses for packing the paint is by hurting them from outside. It's alot harder for defenses to rotate out to 4 shooters than 3, especially when all 4 of those guys can drive, kick, and/or swing the ball. Stopping the Harden/Dwight pick and roll with so many shooters spacing the floor would be a nightmare, especially considering how Dwight ranks 9th on pick and rolls via Synergy Sports and Harden ranks 5th among pick and roll handlers. However, with Asik at PF it would be a little easier for an uninvited guest to enter the paint and disrupt the pick and roll. I'm going to a clips from that article to further explain my point.

    In this Warriors set, Asik would likely be playing the role of David Lee who is being guarded by Ryan Anderson. Watch how Anderson steps into the paint and gets right back to Lee with just a couple of steps.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_qmHhzfqdU&feature=player_embedded
    He still had to respect Lee a little because Lee can hit that mid-range shot, but Asik would get absolutely no respect at all out there. Regardless, it's that kind of "paint packing" that we want to avoid, and it would be a lot easier to counter it if we have four guys on the floor who can bury it from deep.

    HISTORY PROVES IT:
    If you noticed in the first round, the Warriors packed the paint against the 57 wins Nuggets whose high powered offense was completely exposed in the half-court. The Grizzlies did the same thing to the Clippers, and then got a taste of their own medicine against the Spurs. The Rockets would likely get a taste of that same medicine everytime we put both Dwight and Asik on the floor together, especially against the elite defensive teams we will be facing the playoffs come future years. And for what it's worth, we did get a taste in game 1 when we started both Omer Asik and Greg Smith together as we we got blown out by 29 points by the OKC Thunder. In the next 5 games we went with 4 shooters, and every one of those 5 games were close.

    In the NBA finals, the Duncan/Splitter duo didn't work very well and alot of that had to do with how quick Miami's rotation defense is (although part of it also had to do with Splitter playing like crap). There are tricks to creating floor spacing without shooters, but it's not uncommon to see many floor spacing tricks get snuffed out in the playoffs where defenses are studying game-tape alot more extensively. Even if you look further back into history not much changes.

    Since the merger, no team with a range-less front court has never made the NBA finals. Emphasis on range-less, because alot of people like to think of Hakeem, D-Robinson, Duncan, ect. when they're thinking of twin towers, but all those guys could consistently knock down a mid-range shot--something that can't be said about Dwight or Asik. Now that defenses have evolved, even a mid-range shot doesn't quite cut it, which I believe is part of the reason PF's like Duncan, Garnett, and Bosh have all moved to center.

    ONLY TWO YEARS LEFT ON HIS CONTRACT:
    The best GM's think several steps ahead like a chess master, and that's why it's important to think about what will happen when Asik's contract runs out in 2015. If Asik can only play back-up minutes in Houston, will we want to continue doing that for the rest of his career? I doubt it. Some team out there will offer him a BIG contract and a starting position, and we will have lost an extremely valuable asset for nothing. We don't need to rush, but there are incentives to trading him this off-season which I'm about to get to.

    TRADE VALUE:
    Obviously Asik is too valuable to play only back-up minutes, but it's impossible to win a championship without offensive synergy. I think it would be much wiser to trade Asik while his value is very high, assuming the likelihood we can get a big haul in return. Ofcourse, we don't need to rush, we can wait for the best possible offer while Furkan Aldemir proves to be a capable back-up center in the NBA (assuming we bring him over from Turkey this off-season which I'm guessing we will), but if we do decide to rush we have two great incentives--more cap space for second free agent target, and the likelihood many teams will be willing to pay a pretty penny for a defensive 7 foot center who rebounds at an elite level.

    POSSIBLE TRADE SCENARIO:
    Like I said, there's on need to rush, but lets say for discussion's sake Dwight or Morey wants to win a championship right away (very likely), obviously it would help our chances if we had a more experienced PF (especially one with a consistent shot to space the floor). Portland Trailer blazers are shopping to win now, and it's rumored that a defensive starting center is what they're looking for. This makes sense considering how Aldridge is not a true center, and Porland's defensive shortcomings (ranked 26th defensively) is a big reason they missed the playoffs. GM's are already starting to circle like sharks, wondering whether or not LaMarcus Aldridge is becoming disgruntled and might demand a trade soon (he's a free agent in 2015 which gives him leverage). They have picks #10, #39, #40, and #45. All those second round picks are un-guaranteed salary so they won't count against our cap space, and that #10 pick won't count either IF we draft an international player to stash overseas for a year (if a draftee signs a contract saying he will play overseas for a year, his salary doesn't count against our cap space. We did this with Donatas Motiejunas in 2011). Daryl Morey has been on record saying he likes the draft and stash method, and he also said that early 2nd round picks are arguably more valuable than mid-late 1st round picks.

    If we were to take this trade scenario, not only would we have 4 new prospects (in addition to our own 2nd round pick, and the mid-late 1st round pick we might get for Thomas Robinson), but we would also have over $8 million more to spend on someone to compliment Dwight Howard at PF. Or we can find a taker for Lin too and go for another max player like Chris Paul (which works if each Dwight and Paul take a discount of $1 million).

    So there you have it, a plethora of good reasons why it would be a good idea to trade Asik if we get Dwight. Don't ge tme wrong, I'm a big fan of Asik's defense and rebounding (I think he's as good a defender as DPoY winner Marc Gasol), but trading him if we get Dwight makes too much sense to me.
     
    7 people like this.
  2. Raven

    Raven Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,984
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    Rumors are that Dwight wants to team with another quality big so he doesn't have to play heavy minutes. If true, his interest in playing here might drop considerably if he knew that Asik wasn't going to be kept.
     
  3. pnr

    pnr Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    58
    I would like to keep Asik as a luxury in case Howard gets injured and to have a good center for all 48 minutes, but I don't think Asik would be too happy being a backup when he knows he can start on a lot of other teams.
     
  4. haydenfisher342

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,449
    Likes Received:
    100
    Asik + Howard can co-exists and both play 35-38 min a game
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    30,994
    Likes Received:
    14,523
    wrong, look what happened when Duncan/Hibbert went out, defense suffered tremendously

    Howard/Asik gives you

    • 48 minutes of elite rim protection
    • great insurance policy for injuries
    • ability to limit minutes during the season, big men take a beating
    • flexibility to go Twin Towers if needed
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. meh

    meh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,377
    Likes Received:
    2,247
    It really does depend on who you can get for him. Asik at 20-25mpg at Chicago level defense(remember in Chicago he was playing much more aggressive) with improved offensive skills is still better than likely what we can get for him. Or what we can get with $8mil in capspace.

    The only way I can see Asik traded is in a S&T for a legit almost-star. Perhaps an Iggy type in a S&T. Although personally I'd rather have Asik than Iggy, but that's the type of trade that would make sense. Otherwise, top shelf defense, even for 1/3 of the game, is still pretty good at $8mil/yr.
     
  7. 2016Champions

    2016Champions Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    46
    Difference between those guys and Dwight is that Dwight can still average 40 minutes in the playoffs. That would leave only 8 minutes for Asik.

    Also, while 48 minutes of elite rim protection would be a nice luxury, there's a limit to how much should be spent on such a luxury otherwise Chicago would have matched.

    No matter how I look at it, there are too many good reasons as to why we should not spend 50% of our budget on one position.
     
  8. rocketblood713

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    57
    I hope we don't but I think we will .....but I thought Dwight wanted to play with Asik
     
  9. platypus

    platypus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,779
    Likes Received:
    284
    Ask yourself what was the biggest weakness of that Orlando team that Dwight took the finals?

    When he got into early foul trouble they were basically **** outta luck. The drop-off was huge even though they had Gortat (correct me if i'm wrong though)

    Asik already is a top ten center in the NBA and his contract is a steal considering his production. For comparisons sake his season averages are comparable to Tyson Chandler's when he made the All Star team. Now why would you want to trade that away when you know that there's a big chance you don't get fair value?

    And your proposed trade certainly does not net us fair value. Why?
    1. First of all portland is our Interconfrence rival, this trade would certainly make them a VERY good team.
    2. The rockets are in WIN NOW mode and getting a bunch of picks does not represent a "win now mentality"
    3. This draft is shown to be very weak. You can get the same value out of a second round pick that you can get out of a late lottery pick.
    4. This leads me to believe that in a WEAK draft trading a defensive anchor who averages a double double for a pu pu platter of picks is not FAIR value.

    It has long been stated by out FO that they value Omer tremendously. Morey has stated numerous times that he was "obsessed" with Asik when he was a Bull and tried numerous times to pry him away. The only senario that i see us dealing him is for a Star/Superstar front court player to pair with dwight.

    But guess what we can do nothing and still have a great center combo that gives us GREAT defense. So i say Omer stays.
     
  10. clos4life

    clos4life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,860
    Likes Received:
    11,801
    If you want to compete in the playoffs to win the 'ship, especially against the elite teams like Miami, 30 million spent on two great centers is a bargain.
     
  11. DM'sVP

    DM'sVP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes Received:
    1,362
    Asik for KG seems more possible with doc going to the clips

    IMO i would rather keep Asik if we got D12 but i can see them saying having 28-29 mil tied up in one position is just not smart.
     
  12. LandryFields

    LandryFields Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    14
    if you want to truly contend then keeping Asik is a luxury you cannot afford. The Rockets simply don't have enough assets to do so
     
  13. haydenfisher342

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,449
    Likes Received:
    100
    You only ONLY trade Asik, if it means getting 3rd allstar.
     
  14. Classic

    Classic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,101
    Likes Received:
    608
    Nice post OP.

    I'm torn on the subject. If we trade Omer, it would have to be a serious upgrade.

    LMA is my dream 4 next to Dwight if we were to land him.
     
  15. DM'sVP

    DM'sVP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes Received:
    1,362
    may be we could convince that Atlanta that Asik can play with horford and we could get smith to pair with D12. say what you will about J smith but i think him and howard would make the best front court in the league and having Harden in the back court makes that one of the best as well.

    Lin/Bev
    Harden/vet min
    Parsons/vet min(garcia)
    J smith/ young bucks
    Howard/vet min(dalembert)

    i definitely think that team can contend
     
  16. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    11,480
    Likes Received:
    1,648
    You make the trade for the 3rd piece once the Howard signing becomes eminent...and yes, most every one agrees with the premise that you have to trade Asik if Howard comes...with all that being said, Asik has shown to be a really fast learner, and terrific team defender...
     
  17. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    13,744
    Likes Received:
    10,220
    You hold onto Asik unless you can get a third star. Trouble is scenarios will arise like Josh Smith or Iggy....tough call then.
     
  18. verysimplejason

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,749
    Likes Received:
    386
    Dwight, Asik and Jones would be a very good frontcourt rotation. Defense wins championships and Rockets must prioritize defense before even worrying about its offense (since I think Rockets do have enough offense-oriented players already...)
     
  19. bleedrockets

    bleedrockets Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    46
    Sorry to break it to you guys but I just got word that since the Rivers trade went through the Clippers are gearing up a sign and trade me/ LA Fakers
     
  20. Francis3422

    Francis3422 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    7,994
    Likes Received:
    5,679
    I think I would slightly prefer Howard/Garnett to Howard and then having Asik as well. If we get Howard, we can switch to contender status this year. Garnett allows you most of the same luxuries you gain in Asik combined with a plethora of win on the offensive side.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now