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How will this team function offensively???

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tone-weezy, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    I agree - - droughts are going to be less frequent and shorter. But here' smy view on the offense.

    Adelman is perfect to coach this offense because he is not RIGID IN THINKING. It's not always going to be Yao option 1, Tmac option 2 and Artest option 3. Or Yao low block, tmac PNR, Artest low block.

    Our foundational offensive sets will still be:
    1. Yao/Artest low post
    2. Tmac PNR
    3. High post/elbow play.
    Early in the season, i think they will tend to rely on the familiar and integrate Artest into the known sets.

    However --- big however -- Adelman will employ this based on matchups, particularly as the season moves along. Among Yao, Tmac and Artest, whoever has the greatest matchup advantage will get the ball as the primary scoring option.

    I don't think we will function as synergystically as the Parker/Ginobli/Duncan Spurs. They seem to post, pass, drive, kick and shoot in a manner that is perhaps greater than the sum of their parts. this is possible because they have such complimentary skill sets with Duncan's low post and passing, ginobli's shooting and and parker/Ginobli's ability to penetrate.

    Rather, I see us more like the Allen/Pierce/KG Celtics or the Drexler/Barkley/Hakeem Rockets. We're going to beat people because we always have 2 or 3 big time threats on offense on the floor. We probably won't have the synergy of the Spurs, but I think we will flow better than the Celts or old Rockets team.
     
  2. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    To boost my post count (er, rather I just thought of a theme here), I think there are three segments of the game that are critical:

    Starting Lineup:
    We have a history of poor or mediocre offensive starts in the 1st and 3rd quarters. I would like to see us begin with Alston/Tmac/Artest/Scola/Yao. It's the best all around lineup and while we give up some 3 pt shooting from Battier, Artest is the better all around scorer and gives us extra juice on the glass.

    No Yao/Smaller Lineup

    I want Yao's minutes to drop to around 32 per game. Late 1st quarter, I'd sub him and Alston out, and then plug in Barry and Battier. That gives us Barry, Tmac, Battier, Artest and Scola. Tmac and Artest have the mismatches and can abuse the opposition or feed B and B for 3. I can see such a unit scoring in bunches. Against a larger front line, we can plug in Landry instead of Barry.



    Closing Lineup
    Barry/Tmac/Battier/Artest/Yao - You simply cannot leave any of these players open. I'd also use this squad for the last 6 minutes of the 2nd quarter. great teams always close out the half strong.

    if you need a stop, you go with Alston/Battier/Artest/Scola/Deke.
     
  3. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Scola over Hayes for a stop?
     
  4. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    nope. oversight by me.

    alston/Battier/Artest/hayes/Deke. you could argue Tmac for alston if you don't have a quick guard to deal with and let Battier/Artest deal with the PG.

    Even Tmac can D up for 1 play and on an elite level if he's willing.
     
  5. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    I'd add that depending on the opposing matchup, Dorsey might make more sense at the 5 then Deke. If teams are going small for instance, which is typical at the end of close games. Deke struggles guarding the perimeter as much as Yao, but Dorsey has that Ben Wallace-like quickness+strength that could make him a real asset on the defensive end.
     
  6. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    I agree the potential is there but for now, I'm holding off on relying on a rookie to learn defensive nuances. I think he will play that role some this year, and then take it over next year completely as Deke retires.
     
  7. PDJACK7

    PDJACK7 Member

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    Yao will benefit because he won't have to get beat up in the game or the whole season for that matter, which will allow him to be fresh at end of games and healthy for playoffs. It won't matter if he plays soft or hard if he's hurt or run down for the playoffs. And I'm not saying he needs to shoot half of his shots from out there, but one or two a game to pull the opposing C away from the goal and allow Artest to work down low at times won't hurt..
     
  8. PDJACK7

    PDJACK7 Member

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    I was one who was hard on Yao about him playing too soft, but now i realize you have to look at each person and situation differently. When Yao so called played soft he managed to play 82 games(02-04) & 80 games(04-05). Since he has been playing more aggresive and taking a pounding every game he has missed 25+ games each of the past 3yrs.(25, 34, & 27 games) and missed the playoffs. As we all know the Refs allow the opposing player to hang on Yao arms and shoulders all game without calling anything, that wears him out along with his height and weight. I would rather have Yao playing a in between game(not too soft, not too hard) and have him fresh and healthy for the playoffs, than to have him get pounded for 60+ games then miss the playoffs because of injury or ineffective because of fatigue.
     
  9. rocketanalyist

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    While I 100% agree with your starting lineup, I would slightly disagree with your point on giving up some 3 pt shooting by inserting Artest into the starting lineup. Last year as a spot up 3 pt shooter, he shot a higher % than Battier did. Most people here don't realize that.

    While I again agree 100% that Yao's minutes should try to be cut down to around 32 for the regular season, although they should go up in the playoffs, I don't necessarily agree with your substitution suggestions. I really don't wanna see Scola playing the 5 except on rare occasions when the other team goes small first. Also, I don't really see Barry as the number 1 backup PG. I see him as the number one back up for Tracy and hopefully Francis backing up Rafer. It will be interesting to see how Adelman starts his substitution patterns and then to see if and how they evolve during the year.

    Actually, if we are gonna go without a real PG in the closing lineup, I would rather see Tmac, Battier, Artest, Scola and Yao and leave Barry out; or substitue Barry for Battier if we want Tmac to be the point forward because Barry's 3 pt shooting is so much better than Battier's. I think adding Scola to the closing lineup makes more sense offensively, imho. But I still think either Steve will be the backup PG effectively and get those minutes, or we will make another trade that brings us someone like a Delonte West that does. It would be so lovely if we could get Barbosa and start him and bring Rafer off the bench as the backup PG. :D

    Not a bad lineup for a stop for sure. But Alston is not that great against the elite PGs on a single stop possession, so I would hope that we have a better option in either Francis, Tmac or even Battier on the other teams PG. So even though Tmac is not quick enough to stay with those PGs, I would still prefer him on a single game ending possession because of his length. That would cut off the outside shoot for that PG and force them to drive giving our team mates the headsup on exactly what they need to do to help/switch or whatever; which Tmac could still do effectively because of his height and length.
     
  10. zzhiggins

    zzhiggins Member

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    The comparison of Artest and Ginobili is a good one, with Ron coming off the bench, he would compete easily for 6th man of the year.. but not just to help the 2nd team.
    Manu gets 31 min and most of it is with Duncan and Parker on the floor and he finishes the games. Its all about match-ups and thats where Rons diversity makes him even more effective than Manu. Ron wont need 38 min to be effective, the first thing he said during discussions of the trade was that he would be happy to lose the double teams he had been facing.
    The Rockets wont change their game to get Ron into the offense, they will get him easier opportunities and have more match-ups to exploit. I expect Ron to get the 6th man role and still get plenty of starts,,just like Manu.
     
  11. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    Give the ball to Ron and get the hell out of his way.
     
  12. MayoRocket

    MayoRocket Contributing Member

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    Wouldn't you rather give it to Steve and get the hell out of his way?
     
  13. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    If he's healthy.
     
  14. Rockza

    Rockza Rookie

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    The problem with driving to the basket is sadly Yao. He is so big and clogs up the lane. So when Yao is out, I say let Ron go to work. TMac will be our perimeter guy who will create for the three point shooters, while both Ron will be the one attacking the basket and Scola will be our bruiser down low. When Yao comes in, TMac will continue to play his role and we will need only Scola or Ron to mix it up. hmm wow... we have amazing offensive and defensive firepower...

    The only drawback that I see with this team is our height. We only have one seven footer (Deke doesnt count) and no one over 6" 9 (?). That will hurt us against the Lakers and Boston. Who will be able to contain Gasol and Garnett?
     
  15. Red1Rocket

    Red1Rocket Member

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    I like the Artest and Tmac part. It seems no one can stop Tmac when he's at the elbow and Artest would make our bench strong, especially if Landry comes back. But Id rather have Scola as our fourth scorer.

    Just my opinion. Yours is still good though.
     
  16. zantabak1111

    zantabak1111 Member

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    The only thing that potentially worries me with this team is the nights when rafer decideds he's gonna be the man and we get stat lines like

    Tmac 6-19
    Rafer 5-17
    Artest 7-12
    yao 6-7

    yao should be the focal point of the offense, but tmac and rafer refuse to defer to the guy sometimes and its so frustrating to watch
     
  17. i3artow i3aller

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    Alston will not be getting nearly as many attempts or mins this year so fear not. His shots will be heading Artest's way.

    In regards to how this offense will run or what five we'll be trotting out there to begin games, I feel that noone not even Adelman knows that yet. Yes Artest is great and we do have a history of starting games poorly, but until our guys get out there and start practicing we just won't know who plays well together. Personally I feel that our starting 5 will be Alston/McGrady/Artest/Scola/Yao. As far as anyone knows Alston/McGrady/Artest/Yao may function at a higher level with Landry out there. The fact that Ron has played under Adelman before helps, and once we gel and learn the rest of Adelmans offense (or at least become comfortable running it) we'll truly see what this offense is capable of. Every last one of Adelman's former players say that you won't truly get it until the end of your second regular season. If this is indeed true then the playoffs and the last few games leading up to it is when we'll finally see what we can expect from our O. One player that I see really helping a lot will be Barry. He is smart, thinks the game, moves the ball, and has a quick trigger on a dead-eye shot.
     
  18. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Los Angeles Lakers:
    Scored 98.2 points per game, Allowed 94.3 points per game (03-04)
    Scored 101.3 points per game, Allowed 94.1 points per game (01-02)
    Scored 100.6 points per game, Allowed 97.2 points per game (00-01)
    Scored 100.8 points per game, Allowed 92.3 points per game (99-00)
    Scored 105.5 points per game, Allowed 97.8 points per game (97-97) w/Kobe, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Elden Campbell, and Rick Fox

    San Antonio Spurs:
    Scored 95.8 points per game, Allowed 90.4 points per game (02-03)
    Scored 91.5 points per game, Allowed 84.3 points per game (03-04)
    Scored 96.2 points per game, Allowed 88.4 points per game (04-05)
    Scored 95.6 points per game, Allowed 88.8 points per game (04-05)

    Chicago Bulls:
    Scored 105.2 points per game, Allowed 92.9 points per game (95-96)
    Scored 103.1 points per game, Allowed 92.3 points per game (96-97)
    Scored 96.7 points per game, Allowed 89.6 points per game (97-98)

    Houston Rockets
    Scored 100.6 points per game, Allowed 96.1 points per game (96-97)

    Boston Celtics
    Scored 100.5 points per game, Allowed 90.3 points per game (07-08)


    I could live with this season's output, if our team is similar to the ones above...besides we easily reach 100 this year.




    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/
     
  19. Yao4REAL

    Yao4REAL Member

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    I think if Artest and Battier on the court at the same time with Artest playing PF...then it's more effective than if Artest start alone. I could be wrong....but i think Artest and Yao and Tmac will have no problem starting because i expect not every ball is going to go to Yao and often if they deny Yao inside, you can always go to Artest post up and HE WILL BURN YOU!! So to me, Artest add another dangerous weapon in the starting lineup. Sometimes Tmac don't have to take every shot and same go with Yao, so Artest get plenty of chances to take over the game.
     
  20. Sym0™

    Sym0™ Member

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    I know Adelman's a great coach so he'll probably be able to think of something up
     
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