1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

How to Deal With the Super Team Dilemna

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by glynch, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. Toast

    Toast Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    10
    Basketball as Olympic badminton.

    Actually, though, the best time to start tanking would have been last season when you lost opportunity revenue in fewer games due to the lockout-shortened season.
     
  2. rockettes

    rockettes Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    21
    legion of doom
     
  3. primtim24

    primtim24 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    813
    I understand your point, but in essense it's kind of apples and oranges. One movie theater vs. another falls in line with the idea of making one business (Loews) decline, while another (AMC) succeeds. Yet in the NBA all the money made is for the NBA. Same thing in football, but it works in football because of the high level of competition. In the NBA if there was only one team that had a real shot of winning the title then fan's interest would fall, however if there were more teams that had a shot to win it all, more fans across the country would be interested.

    But it's a difficult thing to deal with since Basketball is the ONLY team sport that 1 player can make a huge difference. Which is the reason why teams are more than willing to comply with the "1 player's" demands. But until they put some set of rules in place to prevent players from bolting teams to go to big markets, fans of teams that have no chance (70% of the NBA) won't be nearly as interested as they should be. However, David Stern doesn't really care about that though since for every 1 Cavalier fan that quits watching the NBA, 3 more people jump on the Miami bandwagon, he'll take that trade-off everyday.
     
  4. CDave

    CDave Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    9
    The players union wouldn't accept your concept of LIMITING SUPERSTAR MOBILITY, the impacts of which would be hard to project in the near term, unless the owners were prepared to give up something very significant in return.

    Players are already subjected to the draft which locks them into one team for the first half of their career in most cases. Now you're trying to further limit their freedom to choose where they'd like to play because it might result in one team gaining the upper hand over another?

    How would you feel about it if some authority could impose that level of control over your career options?
     
  5. cyntil8ing

    cyntil8ing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    15

    Sure, I get your analogy. It can still be considered a sub-business that's much like a fast food franchise and its branch owners. A successful branch wouldn't be siphoned of profits to prop up a weaker branch regardless of the reason. It's up to the owner to to find a way to make their particular branch work out. I don't think that it's quite the centralized communal pool that you alluded to.

    There are truly only a handful viable franchise players in the league at any given time. I think a couple of posters earlier mentioned that it's not fair to players if they're career path were dictated by their current employer in this sport or any other for that matter. Most teams will not have have franchise players and that's the reality in the modern NBA. All successful franchises have managed to retain these few true franchise players when they acquire them. Even the departure of Shaq from Orlando was because of dubious management, at best, at the time despite people's tendency to oversimplify his departure somewhere along the line of "because it's LA" reasoning.

    Franchise players leave for greener pastures given the chance. If the FO competes and surrounds them with the necessary tools, they'll stay as has been proven time and time again. You don't necessarily blame a franchise caliber players if they decide to leave. It's a competitive sport afterall and it's up to management to find a way to retain them fully knowing how rare they are. Don't penalize the successful on behalf of the inept, incapable, and/or unwilling.

    You may want to read my subsequent post from the one you quoted. I wrote some other things there that may clarify my general train of though.
     
  6. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    5,855
    Likes Received:
    4,157
    Three things:

    - THIS IS REALLY UNNECESSARY AND ANNOYING
    - what is your "point"? If you don't think the system is broken or that competitive balance should/could be restored through new CBA rules, why bother commenting here? Clearly the discussion here is how to restore that balance. The discussion isn't how that's not possible now. That is the reality we live in right now and literally every other thread on the board is devoted to that reality. You should try posting there.

    Do I think the owners or players would necessarily sign off on my plan? No. But it would fix the issue of competitive balance. The fact is money is the chief motivator for all parties - we saw it in the latest CBA. Small markets if given a choice between taking a stand on competitive balance(and in the summer after Lebron no less) or turning a profit will choose turning a profit every time and that's why the CBA will never truly curb competitive balance issues. The new CBA the owners agreed to just takes more money from the haves and gives it to the have nots. All players want to make the most money and as I said, the reality is endorsement dollars in large markets for stars mean players always want to get to those same handful of teams. It's a completely unregulated part of the NBA that ironically has a huge impact on the type of CBA the players will accept.

    Short of contracting to give the league a better ration of good players to teams(which is what I said at the beginning of my post - you know, when I was giving ideas of how it's possible rather than taking a dump on other people's ideas), there is no other solution that can be achieved via the CBA because owners & players will both protect a financial interest and a soft cap is the best way to meet those needs....but I don't believe league contraction would have to meet the same agreement that a CBA negotiation would.

    - and finally: WHAT'S YOUR PLAN, EINSTEIN?
     
  7. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    5,855
    Likes Received:
    4,157
    Your confusing the point. There are TWO competitions in the NBA. The one on the court and the one in the financial books. The Clippers suck on the court but they consistently make tons of money every year despite putting together pathetic teams for decades. If any other team not in LA or NY tried to do that, they would bleed the owner dry of all money and have to close the team down or sell it. This is just the reality of different markets having access to different resources but the important thing to note here is that NBA teams aren't operating in a free market - the NBA is a very specific closed market and if more than half the league is losing money it IS bad for the feasibility of the thriving franchises.

    Consider that 12 teams have a five year average of losing money(according to Forbes) and it's clear to see that there is a problem that effects the league. The Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, etc are the teams with the really nice houses in NBA neighborhood. They paid dearly for their houses, but the properties appreciate at much better rates. As they add to their homes, they are limiting the "view" of some of their neighbors. Meanwhile in their 30 team neighborhood, 12 houses actually depreciated over 5 years. What does that do to the value of the of the really profitable houses if nearly half the houses in the neighborhood end up being vacant/forcelosed? This is the fundamental issue here. It's not penalizing for a team's success, it's realizing that the success comes at someone else's misfortune and recognizing that if left unchecked it threatens the stability of the big teams too. Though the TV schedule may make you think it, interest in the NBA will plummet if there are too few teams.
     
  8. lytruc

    lytruc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    1
    I like what Kevin Durant said when asked about Howard going to LA Lakers, "I don't really care." Same way when Derrick Rose didn't recruit Lebron.

    The Spurs still had the best record in the League last year, and just because you put together a super team on paper doesn't mean it'll work out. Remember Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Kobe and Shaq? I don't see a ring on Karl's finger.

    America always roots for the underdog.
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    73,100
    Likes Received:
    18,950
    Huge distinction here between Gary and Karl jumping on for one year at the very end of their careers and guys jumping during the primes of their careers.
     
  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    88,837
    Likes Received:
    42,766
    Guys want to win multiple ships instead of one or two
    Greedy sobs
     
  11. Z-Ro&Trae

    Z-Ro&Trae Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,735
    Likes Received:
    41
    that would be entertaining as hell if the nba used the ncaa tournament format for play-off games instead of the 7 games series.
     
  12. CDave

    CDave Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    9
    That's a nice fairy tale but I'm afraid it's historically inaccurate.

    Franchise dominance in the NBA didn't just raise it's head five years ago. The Lakers and the Celtics have been dominating this league for 60 years and there isn't even a close third.

    I don't argue that there aren't teams losing money in this league. But your premise that it's everything to do with certain markets having so much more to offer is just leaning the proverbial ladder against the wrong wall.

    For example, the idea that the Knicks coming from New York are somehow NBA relevant is preposterous nonsense. Look at their track record on the court over the span of 60 years relative to other franchises? Talk about sucking. Most people alive can't remember the last time the Knicks won an NBA Championship.

    During that time they have spent money, they have had SUPERSTAR players that they have landed both through the draft and free agency combined, they have always had a very loyal fan base, but their front office has been notoriously bad. And still is. New York just doesn't get it from a professional basketball point of view and maybe they never will.

    But their success or failure in the NBA has nothing whatever to do with what neighborhood they're a part of.

    Speaking of that neighborhood, similar to New York, why on earth would the San Francisco / Bay Area continue to flounder for decades with the Warriors if it's all about larger markets and more attractive resources?

    Which half dozen or so franchises do you have in mind when you suggest that their success is based on "the reality of different markets having access to different resources"?

    San Antonio? Detroit? Oklahoma City? Dallas? Miami?

    They've cracked the code over the past decade plus and in addition to the Lakers and the Celtics have managed to win championships, but how are they different from Houston?

    Besides punishing the Lakers and the Celtics for their success, who else gets named to that list of franchises that just have too many distinct market advantages over anyone else?

    This premise fails the reasonableness test repeatedly IMO.
     
  13. psingh34

    psingh34 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    64
    dallas only made it as a FREE AGENT destination. And the only reason they made it as that was bc miami, LA, NY were going to be able to sign howard as a free agent.

    his list went like this .. Brooklyn, than LA, than if none of those worked out he declared as a FA he would sign with dallas
     
  14. psingh34

    psingh34 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    64
    this wont fix the problem but rather cause a consequence for joining a super team. Limit all stars to 2 per team. This will force the bosh's, gasol/nash's of the world to sit at home during the allstar weekend.
     
  15. juanm34

    juanm34 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    6,721
    Likes Received:
    7,781
    Join the ABA. Problem solved until the league disbands again.
     
  16. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2001
    Messages:
    23,313
    Likes Received:
    33,293
    I farted and it worked for me.


    I hate this we're a small market victim attitude. LA got Howard because they, along with other teams, made for a better trade package. Relax, we have to rebuild and that takes at least one offseason to do.
     
  17. Mr Chuck Norris

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,526
    Likes Received:
    1,745
    Well Cole Aldrich was worthless...the other guy.....not so worthless
     
    Huricane likes this.
  18. Sidarma

    Sidarma Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,945
    Likes Received:
    1,141
    Another necroed old thread, good job chuck
     
    Mr Chuck Norris and Huricane like this.
  19. HTown_TMac

    HTown_TMac Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    It's funny this thread suggested sending Martin to OKC for a useless pick, when instead Morey got a future MVP.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now