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honest Beard question

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by legacygt777, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. legacygt777

    legacygt777 Member

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    We've seen Kawhi, Kobe, and even CP3 (at times) play at a clutch level during the playoffs. I think Harden's performance was good but not over the top to get over the hump.

    Not that the playoffs are over, why do you think Harden can't command consistently some playoff games and be lights out like he has in the reg season? I get it that he breaks down and that's why the Rox got Cp3 but do you think its maybe a mental issue, refs not calling fouls, tired from playing tighter defenses, and/or combination of all things?

    What do you think he needs to work on over the summer? If he plays consistent D, I think a mid range game and post up game like kobe (which both Bron and Kobe took lessons from Dream) could add to his arsenal.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    he needs to be lebron.. not just second to him

    https://www.basketball-reference.co...2val=4&c3stat=g&c3comp=gt&c3val=7&order_by=ws
     
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  3. brosef

    brosef Member

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  4. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    (1) Mental issue. Not really. People do like to hang that on him.

    (2) Refs not calling fouls. Yep. Even GSW jock-sniffer Reggie Miller was vociferous about the Game 7 non-calls. Rockets might have even pulled out a win. But therein lies a problem. Some refs are no better than the fans. They don't want to see JH free throws, either.

    (3) Tired from playing tighter defenses. Probably. I mean, stopping him is priority #1 for opposing teams.

    (4) All of the above. Gotta go with a combo of #2 and #3.

    Work on over the summer? Mix up his game a bit, coach and Morey be damned. Works for CP3. Just enough to be less predictable, perhaps.
     
  5. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I've discussed this ad naseum... but...

    - fewer FTs and calls. This is just facts and numbers. Look at his per36 FT attempts this regular season vs. playoffs

    - playing better teams that scheme better against him and the team.

    - not just better teams but some better one on one defenders. even with the bigs. there's a big difference going against Enes Kanter one on one, and Kevin Looney one on one. Looney is just a better fundamental defender... and more to the point one that has the training of the GSW, Draymond on how to best defend on the perimeter

    - smart defensive teams know to give Harden the three, over and over, if you had to choose one, vs. the drive. giving him the three accomplishes a few things. for one, when Harden is putting up threes at volumes, its way more often than not he's doing it at a poor % in an effort to shoot himself out of it. Like he'll be 1-5 and be like "I'm better than this!", or "just got to trust my stuff" and keep jacking, sometimes even jack more. I definitely understand its a fine line... because he will then throw in a 5-9 or 7-9 type three game, but you will see a lot more 2-12 types than 7-9. Second, it's just easier to defend. When Harden can get a step and drive, it opens up the entire offense. When he's just jacking threes its a lot of no movement. Easier to defend AND when he isn't hitting can demoralize the other players offensively. Third, it lowers offensive rebounding. Well... I don't have numbers on this, and certainly it creates some long offensive rebounds, but on the whole, the court is spread, the other players aren't really moving, there's not a ton of switching by the defense, and they are more likely to get the boards and push fast breaks the other way.

    - teammates. I mean, even with the above, when you have a CP3 type next to him, its working pretty well. Without CP3, you're relying on Trevor Ariza, PJ Tucker, etc. And when those guys suck, the Rockets and Harden are easier to defend, obviously.

    - mentality. he has some of that TMac its on me mentality while also pressing a bit. it is on him... it isn't on him, who cares. he needs to stop "pressing" at times.

    - overall skillset. this is not hating. just is what he is. he's not the biggest, strongest or fastest. he's not the best shooter. he's not the best ballhandler. He is VERY VERY good at all those, but of course what he's the ABSOLUTE BEST at, perhaps ever, is drawing fouls, and deceleration. Great things to be great at, but given the calls that get lowered and the comments mentioned above, perhaps easier to defend against in a series by great teams

    - off ball action. I'm sorry, this isn't about creating flow in the offense or complaining about laziness or whatever. it's just common sense. the deeper they get into the playoffs, the longer and longer it takes to get harden with the ball, isolated against a defender he wants to go against. all that effort to get there is work, and reduces the time to do stuff thereafter. there's absolutely no reason this team can't at least have 5-10 off ball pick action stuff just to get the ball to Harden, or CP3 easier, in different ways, etc. We're not talking about complex stuff. It makes sense for a variety of reasons. Ideally, you'd want even more than that.

    A lot of the above you'd say sure, but how come that doesn't apply during the regular season?? well of course it does. But ultimately from a playoff perspective it all comes down to the fact that you are playing better teams, with better defenses, and better coaching who have the ability to scheme appropriately. There's a reason we saw lots of Looney and no McGee against the Warriors for example.
     
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  6. juanm34

    juanm34 Member

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    The Beard is a MVP player he will get better as we’ve witnessed. All he has to do is adjust to these refs( foster/brothers).
    If the challenge flag gets implemented it will help his cause.
     
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  7. legacygt777

    legacygt777 Member

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  8. legacygt777

    legacygt777 Member

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    There might be a little mental thing going on. Watching Cp3 taking charge and encouraging Harden has made a difference imo.
     
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  9. legacygt777

    legacygt777 Member

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    Good right up, man. However, I think Harden is stronger mentally than Tmac. Harden tends to shy away at big moments. But like what I mentioned, Harden needs to develop a better mid range and post up.
     
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  10. Toffeeone

    Toffeeone Member

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    Very simple, Harden is a scorer and not a shooter. He needs to develop his shooting game.
     
  11. apollo33

    apollo33 KMart Only Fan
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    shoot fewer 3's, he's got no legs for it when he plays good defense.
     
  12. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I mean I guess he's stronger mentally than TMac.

    I actually think it has way more to do with luck and circumstance than mentality. (i think this about life generally... there is a very interesting recent scientific study done on the role of luck in life where they do a bunch of simulations... happy to find the link if interested). The biggest thing I can say about TMac was that down the clutch, he just relied way too much on his jumpshot. Which is what I'd say about Harden, too. They just stop driving and start jacking a bit.

    Cause in reality... name me some "great" TMac teams?? I mean, yes, he definitely could have gotten out of the first round once. But I'm not about to say just because he had Yao for a few years that that Rockets team was great. I mean they had to strategically play Flying Ryan Bowen against Dirk in the playoffs one year. They had Mark Jackson one year. Mike James. Bobby Sura. Mo Taylor. Old Juwan Howard. Jon Barry. Luther Head. Chuck Hayes. Rafer Alston. Bonzi Wells.

    That's a collection of role players that MDA would refuse to play in the playoffs, lol.

    They did have Shane Battier who in his prime is Trevor Ariza. And Deke off the bench who was Nene-esque in his role. They probably dissapointed me the most in 06-07 when they lost game 7 at home vs. Utah, and they lost by 4. But to be fair, TMac was 29 points, 13 assists, 5 boards that game on ok efficiency. And to be more fair, they lost game 3 of that series where the team only scored 67 points. For the whole game. Only 5 people scored. TMac/Yao had 50 of the 67 I think.

    I mean TMac deserves the hate on here. The way he handled the end was insanely bad. And with the Rockets or elsewhere, if you can't get your team out of the 1st round, for whatever reason, it's worth mentioning, AND ESPECIALLY worth mentioning when he becomes an analyst and says dumb stuff. He is definitely not the player overall that Harden is on the whole... though in his best years in Orlando, TMac was one heck of a player. Think about how different his legacy would be if either Grant Hill gets healthy or Duncan leaves SAS and joins TMac in Orlando as was somewhat close to happening that one year.

    In any case... mentality with Harden speaks to a lot of things. Like why doesn't he move off ball?? That's a mentality thing. Why does he settle for jumpshots way too often?? That's a mentality thing. Why is he so often getting on his teammates for defensive miscues... when he sucks defensively?? These are little things relative to mentality and nobody is perfect. With the right talent around him, and some adjustments to his game, I think his mentality would be fine.
     
  13. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!
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    Harden needs to learn counters to defenses that key on his high efficiency shots.

    You aren't always going to get a good shoot at 3 or a layup. Develop a floater and a deadly stop and pop from 6 feet.
     
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  14. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    he already has a floater hes actually pretty good at. he just doesn't use this enough. maybe we'll see him use it more who knows.
     
  15. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Harden should explore his midrange game more, especially since he is good at it. The season where he was super clutch, he shot a lot of step back midrange shots.
     
  16. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member
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    The problem with the lax refereeing in the playoffs (i.e. rigging of games )
    IS that it is tiring . .. and exhausting and takes players out of their game

    Why does Turnovers go up? Be cause defenders can hit your hand and wrist without a call
    Why does not he drive as much? Because Defenders and stick a knee into his thigh and push him more
    Why does his shot not fall as much? Energy being taken away trying to make drives around knees and slaps on the wrist and arms are not counted.

    People who say he should drive drive drive are being disingenuous. If he drives 5 straight times and missed because of hacks and grabs and doesn't get a foul . . . .why drive 5 more times?
    If he pulls up for the jumper and misses a couple of times. . .they whine he is shying away from contact and wilting under the pressure
    Same with the 3 ptrs .

    I think his success would be better if the Refs simply called the game better

    The Reason why I think HARDEN not DURANT is the second best player in the league is because
    Like LeBron . .. he takes the most hits and most physical beatings in the league
    KD cannot be breathed one . . . he get some of the fluffiest softest calls
    So defenders are a little more lax on him . . .with Harden they know they can get away with more

    Complain about HArden getting too many foul shots. . . but no one complains that they are not true fouls

    Rocket River
     
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  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member
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    If he reintegrates this into his game .. he will be unstoppable.

    Rocket River
     
  18. Hard_foul

    Hard_foul Member

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    I truly think he gives it so much during the regular season that he runs out of gas. Last year by the end of the spurs series. This year the effort didn’t die down towards the end of playoffs, but the missed shots/mistakes caught up to him. Add one more really good player and the Rockets can be great.
     
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member
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    One More thing . . .. . Has Harden *not* improved every year?

    Rocket River
     
  20. Hard_foul

    Hard_foul Member

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    I think he has it, just didn’t use it as often this year. In that 2015 wcf series he was great from mid range.
     
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