Since apparently people are challenging the list, here's a link to the site: https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/ More details: Survey participants: https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=participants Methodology: https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=methodology
I lean this way myself. He also is of paramount importance because he did not over extend Presidential power and supported a peaceful transition of power when few in his position would have. I think the argument for Lincoln and FDR is that they brought wide reaching change during turbulent times. Personally I find it interesting that the two Presidents held in similar esteem to Washington; both violated and abused the Constitution and extended Presidential powers to a level that most people would be alarmed about if they researched it. Eisenhower (other than Washington) has to be the best at not alienating rank and file members of opposition parties.
I Jay, if you don't understand no amount of message-board discussion will change your mind. I would be curious to know the political leanings of the "historians" that were polled. Given most are from universities, I doubt if I am going out on a limb to think that a majority of them probably lean to the left.
Yeah, I'm thinking assassination is fairly reliable metric when it comes to divisiveness. But, what do I know?
Interesting response. I'm not asking to have my mind changed, I just asked for an actual discussion on the matter. For example, Person A: The Godfather is the best movie ever. Person B: No, it is not. Person A: Why not? Person B: It just isn't. Isn't how you discuss things. You imagine if all sports talk shows went like this? They would be 5 minutes long and filled with twiddling fingers. I mean I'm not asking for a dissertation, I'm just saying if you are going to disagree with the list I'd like to know why. As for the whole university point, I dunno man, that's pretty insulting. Are you saying conservatives aren't smart enough to go to universities? Some conservative presidents are rated pretty highly on the list, maybe they just aren't as biased as you are about it. You are the one that thinks liberalism is a disease after all.
Again, its interesting to discuss and debate the rankings. But it is interesting that these so-called "left leaning" historians ranked republicans three of the top five (and four of the top five if you include the Federalist). And while determining the political leanings of 91 people seems a significant undertaking, it is pretty easy to see that there are conservatives on this list (ie. David Kennedy at Stanford, Burton Folsom at Hillsdale) and I am pretty sure the guy from the Heritage Foundation isn't too left-leaning ;-) Seriously, it just may be that Obama was a better president than you think.
Some r****ds here in this forum still think Barry "Big Ears" Soetoro is the president and not Mr Trump.
I am not sure why a I am even bothering to do this but a quick list: 1) Doubling the national debt to the tune of adding more debt than all the Presidents before combined 2) A foolish and ignorant foreign policy that brought us Isis (you know the JV team) and helping Iran on their path to becoming a nuclear power. 3) Screwing up the healthcare system for millions of hard working Americans making everyone's premiums and deductibles go way up 4) Being so vocal yet so wrong about things like the Gentle Giant lie in Ferguson that set race relations back decades and led to policeman being killed as BLM came into existence on those lies. 5) Never reaching at least 3% growth while our economy was artificially propped up with crazy low interest rates and quantitative easing I could list a 100 more but I think you get the picture Do not fool yourself to thinking conservatives do not go to college. I did and every conservative person I know did also. Most professors are liberal. If you do not think a lot of them push the liberal agenda then I have some ocean front property to sell you. A lot of professors have never worked in the real world. College is a place where the weak minded get brainwashed into a liberal indoctrination. Yes people do learn a few things they need to do their chosen profession but a lot of professors who have never had a real job other than the university do push an agenda.
What are your thoughts on the Christian church and pastors brainwashing people from when they were born to Conservative indoctrination?
It's still nowhere near accurate though. A president that didn't push through anything positive while in office that only served to divide the nation isn't one that should be said is the 12th best at anything. Then again, it's not THAT much of a shock that you could find a collection of Obama fanboys who would prop him up like that. Hell we're talking about the same guy that won a Nobel prize just for being elected. He's received undeserved praise for quite a long time now and I doubt it ends any time soon.
Its about where I thought he would land. While still in office he was landing mid-teens I believe. And as one historian predicted, his ranking will likely rise as time goes by, especially in comparison to the President that follows him. Its unlikely anyone would say top three, with Washington, Lincoln, FDR obvious picks. Top ten? Maybe, worthy of debate. But those that believe he is among the worst presidents are the one that have a much more difficult argument to make.
I have gone to church as long as I can remember (I am almost 48 now) and have never once heard a pastor talk about politics. I am not saying it does not happen but I have never personally witnessed it. Now when I went to college, I saw it all the time. If you go to a church that indoctrinates you to anything other than soul cleansing blood of the Lamb of God then I suggest you may want to change churches.
Because it is a discussion board? 1.) True, but he wasn't that bad on the economy when you consider jobs. 2.) No. Obama didn't create Isis. To say that is to ignore everything that happened before him and just put it all at his feet. 3.) Also giving millions of people healthcare, many people who plainly say they would be dead without...but okay. 4.) Not sure how you think THAT was what led to 'setting race relations' back. I could name several things. 5.) Funny, many economists think Obama did a fine job. I see. I misread your comment, I thought you were implying that just attending university meant they were liberals. Well then, I can't respond to them being liberals. Do you have proof that they are? It seems like it is a baseless accusation just because you don't like where Obama placed on the list. Where would you place Obama on the list?
When you consider good paying, full time jobs, it was pretty bad though.....so some low paying part time work isn't really worth literally doubling the debt. That is true, he did not create ISIS, but his really awful foreign policy decisions led to the rapid expansion of ISIS from being almost nothing at all to where they are now as one of the largest terrorist threats in the world. He even took credit for awful decisions of others and made sure they were able to go through that helped ISIS expand. Obama gave no one health care. He forced through a garbage piece of legislation that forced people to buy health insurance or face a fine....that's not giving ANYONE health care. Oh, and it was such an awful piece of legislation that the whole thing in set to collapse on it's own just a few years after fully rolling out.......That's also just about the only thing he did while in office. He was incredibly divisive while president and often ran his mouth like an idiot about certain cases that he shouldn't have and absolutely worsened race issues in the country.....now we have another president that runs his mouth like a jackass all too often and I'm sure you'll jump on him for it, well, they are not really any different when it comes to this aspect. I'm sure you could find "many economists" to agree with anything. It's not exactly a single minded group. Honestly near the bottom. Certainly not THE worst, but he did nothing positive while dividing the country.....how can that be seen as anything but bad? Other than being the first black president, I can't think of anything else positive to say.
Indoctrination = "teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically" Are you telling me that going to church does not teach people to unequivocally accept 1. that God exists, and 2. all the other values, however arbitrary or archaic they may be? i'd say that's the textbook definition of indoctrination. You also never specified at all what liberal indoctrination means, whether it be social values, economic policy, or what. I know one thing, never once did I hear my astronomy professor discuss social progressiveness. I did not hear my history professor talk to us about economic policy. Maybe professors are left-leaning, but that doesn't necessarily dictate that those guys "indoctrinate" you with anything at all.
