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HISD School Ratings: Yes another inner city broken homes thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by pgabriel, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Contributing Member

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ho...ls-as-fate-of-HISD-board-remains-14340672.php

    As discussed in the not so distant past in another thread, Houston Independent School District is considered by the state of Texas a "wealthy district" or ar a district that has to share funds with less wealthy districts in the state.

    However its inner city schools aren't up to standard. A lot of these have been remodeled in the last 20 years. Wheatley and Kashmere have relatively new campuses.

    They are still very low performing schools
     
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Contributing Member

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  3. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I feel like most people that have had some level of direct touch with Texas' robinhood laws, be it from actual wealthy districts, districts claimed to be wealthy, or poorer districts that receive funds, have lots of confusion about the laws and impact.

    I think - though certainly don't quote me on it - research has proven that things like involvement: parental, community, teacher, etc. - are more important than physical asset state, or relative teacher salary, etc. to overall school/district quality.

    I've seen various articles over the last 12+ months talking about some of these larger, major city, urban districts having gone from receiving funds to giving funds to robinhood. I don't think its a HISD issue only. Here's an interesting article form last year for example:
    https://abc13.com/education/a-texas-school-district-opened-a-water-park-and-you-paid-for-it/4162905/

    I have no solutions here mind you. I'm in a great school district that is also a giving district. Than the community does tons of additional fundraising to fund other needs and positions - heck even the elementary school nurse is funded through private donations, which is kind of sad.

    I was curious if the overall district size had something to do with HISD issues in particular.

    Per https://www.niche.com/k12/search/largest-school-districts/

    It's definitely one of the largest, but also one of the worst ranked of those large districts.
     
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  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Contributing Member

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    I don't know how long HISD has been considered wealthy but i would assume it has to do with recent gentrification and therefore property taxes. When i say recent i mean the last 20 years.

    I live in 5th Ward. Gentrification is heading its way. Just responding to the wealth questions

    Edit; i dont claim to have solutions either but we both agree spending more money only goes so far. I assume all large districts becoming money givers all have to do with gentrification.

    One thimg on solutions is realizing money only goes so far. Eventually these kids are back at home learning from the home
     
    #4 pgabriel, Aug 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  5. HTM

    HTM Member

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    It's not about resources and facilities so much as a culture of educational
    You can have facilities made of marble and if the students aren't determined to learn and improve themselves they won't help. Conversely you can have rundown facilities and if the students are determined to learn and improve themselves they can.
     
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  6. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    So what about this has to do with broken homes?

    Oh it's PG.

    Nevermind.
     
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  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Contributing Member

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    Why are the schools failing? Oh irs a liberal
     
  8. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    There's a multitude of reasons schools are "failing".I

    Just because schools don't reach state Manchester scores don't mean there failing.

    I teach school and the whole star testing system is a bit of a scam.
     
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  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Contributing Member

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    I actually agree that No Child Left Behind is another GWB catastrophe.

    Regardless the point is money only goes so far. Im not an expert but i do know we are all born with a natural propensity to want to learn. It has to be developed early on
     
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Ahh the whole black culture argument. So how do you solve it? Blast airhorns in the streets of Chicago and Detriot where individuals like you lecture black families about how to raise their kids?

    Properly funded resources in the right endeavors definitely solves many of these issues in the long term. The US is one of the worst ranked developed nations in terms of access to early childhood education which is the most important aspect of a human's development that has the most impact on whether an individual will be apart of the criminal justice system or completely avoid it.
    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...tries-in-early-childhood-education-enrollment

    You would be surprised how many developed nations give access to high quality early childhood education as public resource.

    So many other programs such as access to public health insurance have so many butterfly effects. How many young teens in poor urban communities have to provide some sort of income to the family because their mom can't afford diabetes medication which distracts them from school work?

    Also on average, 80% of a school district is funded by local property taxes which means that communities with lower property tax values have less funding per student on average depending on how poor your neighborhood is which entirely defeats the purpose of public education which is supposed to be the great equalizer that allows a child regardless of how poor their parents are to receive a proper education in theory...


    Reforming law enforcement would also help. Increasing the educational standards for the requirements to become an officer would help greatly. Of course that entails an increase in pay.

    Removing the private prison industry could help. No incarcerations for non violent offenders might help also.

    Normative claims about black culture aint going to help. It's just a justification to feel good about being on a high horse.
     
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    This seems more like a large two parent white family problem.
     
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  12. HTM

    HTM Member

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    It's a problem that transcends race.

    Your projections of me as some sort of racist a&&hole only highlights how big of self-righteous, sanctimonious, a&&hole loser you are. You're a seriously unhinged dude and it's difficult to even respond to you. If you want to have a civil discourse, make an effort not to insinuate the person you are responding to is a bigoted a&&hole in the first two sentences.
     
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  13. dmoneybangbang

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    Meh. Unless you can quantify or legislate a "culture of education" then its merely like saying "well if everyone would just do the right thing...". I think we underestimate how long public education has been going on and under the various conditions. My mom's grandparents never divorced, but my grandfather was never around and was a pretty poor human being.
     
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  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You want to discuss solutions to inner city poverty and all you do is state "it's culture". What the **** does that mean? Did you notice how my post has what I perceive to be solutions? Where is your attempt? Your victim complex is easy to get through. I never called you racist. I stated your argument is lazy. You provided no solutions and just went with the good ol platitude for poor urban people: "it's culture". And I'm the asshole yet you are the one who comes in here with platitudes of non-viable solutions of magically fixing "culture".

    If you think the problem is "culture", please go ahead and discuss how you think it can be solved, otherwise I can only conclude your drive by 2 cents about "culture" in a very nuanced multi-layered issue is just you wanting to be on a high horse. I have no sympathy for your cries of believing I called you a racist. Grow up.
     
    #14 fchowd0311, Aug 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  15. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Anyone can read the first sentences your wrote. It's patently obvious on it's face the racist insinuation made.

    The problems you highlighted are problems of poverty un-unique to any race but of course, unsurprisingly, you framed it that way immediately.

    I didn't claim to have a solution you dunce. I merely lamented it's not a matter of educational resources, the U.S. spends almost as much as anyone in the world with regards to primary and secondary education. Throwing money at the issue can obviously only get you so far. You can sit in the most beautiful facility ever made but if you don't care about and prioritize school it won't matter. At the same time, people from the most adverse circumstances using the most rudimentary of educational resources have created a better life for themselves.

    History has shown us that plenty of people of all races have overcome poverty, broken homes, absentee parents, incarcerated parents and all types of obstacles to use the U.S. educational system to achieve a better life. Those people attitudes and desire have plenty do with their success. They didn't need massive government programs to do it.
     
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  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Except the thread starter always posts "inner city delinquency" framing it a "black culture" problem. There are literally dozens of threads started by him with that premise. And stating that the current predicament of urban black poverty and how they got there is not unique relative to other races in the US is a highly ignorant statement regarding American history.

    African slaves in the Americas continued for 300 years until the end of the US Civil War which then started the era of Black Codes and Jim Crow laws along with effects of racism towards the black community during that era that wasn't enforced by the government such as lynch mobs and redlining. That lasted for an additional 100 years where legislation was passed in the 1960s that theoretically ends discrimination at best. All the sentiments racists held of black people didn't magically vanish because of a piece of legislation. So yes, 400 years of systemic institutionalized racism of black people in the US from 300 years of slavery to 100 years of Jim Crow/ Black Codes that all theoretically ended in 1964.

    After the Civil War, there was an actual effort to get black families to own land, especially farm land in the South. A lot of that land had oil deposits under them. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/h...ere-forced-from-their-land-and-their-heritage

    Black families were tricked and forced to have their lands seized by the government by unfair and NOW illegal practices of spiking property taxes with no justification(they were black). Also, since law enforcement in the South was highly racist, white people found was to steal land deeds in nefarious ways without legal consequences. Thus creating a situation where white families got the upper hand and many of those pieces of land turned out to have oil deposits in them creating wealthy families.

    That's just a small example. One of the most systemic examples of how Jim Crow effects black families today is redlining. Black families who were financially qualified were denied mortgages thus were disproportionately not allowed to be home owners. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term "white flight". White flight was when white families moved out of urban neighborhoods into wealthier suburbs when they had their mortgages approved while black families weren't and thus were stuck as perpetual renters in decaying urban neighborhoods. This drastically ties into education also. Wealthy suburbs of higher property taxes than poor urban neighborhoods. Local property taxes tie into how public school districts are funded as property taxes on average account for 80-90% of k-12 education thus communities that are poor and have low property taxes have shittier school districts. Thus black people were force funneled to live in worse communities and worse school districts due to 400 years of institutionalized racism.

    Even ignoring the issues of redlining, during the 100 years after slavery ended during Jim Crow segregation, Black segregated schools would recieve as little as FIVE PERCENT per capita funding of a nearby white school. Statistically, regardless of race, poor uneducated parents transfer their poverty and lack of education to their children. That's how society works. There are always outliers but if you subjected a group of white people to the same 400 years of systemic racism, you would see similar results of them being force funneled into poor urban ghettos.

    Sauce? Specifically per student head and compared to DEVELOPED countries ( I hope we have higher standards than developing nations).

    Actually empirically, history has shown us that parents born into poverty and a lack of education tend to pass those traits along to the next generation at a much greater rate than not. What you are discussing are outlier situations. Given a large population pool of uneducated, poor parents, most of the children will also most likely be poor and under-educated by the time they become adults. Only drastic systemic changes to how society is run can change these predicaments. Not lecturing about "culture".

    BTW, did you even attempt to read the article I posted about school funding in poor neighborhoods?:
     
    #16 fchowd0311, Aug 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  17. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Sure, OECD Countries:

    https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

    We're 2nd.
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    And what about in poor urban neighborhoods in the US as that is the discussion at hand?

    [​IMG]

    Also, what about about access to early childhood education? The Us is near the bottom in early childhood education enrollment? Early childhood development is probably the most important stage of human development in terms of intelligence and emotional stability.
     
  19. HTM

    HTM Member

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    You wanted me to back up my claim. I did so exactly. I do think it's interesting the chart your using indicates the suburban "rich" school districts in Houston/Dallas are still in Orange. (at least I think they are)

    We spend enough. Do we do it equitably and wisely? Doubtful. I don't think our governments Federal/State/Local are very effective or good stewards of our money. This would be a case in point. We spent a sh*t ton on education and the return is horrible.
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    What makes you confident in this claim?

    Have you read this article:


    Click the blue title for the link to the article.
     
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