Here are the real Cold Hard Facts on Russell Westbrick

How so?

 

I don't get the Kwahi or Lebron love.
Kwahi does not lead James Harden in *ANY* category Except maybe steals (1.8 versus 1.5)
Lebron has more rebounds (8.6 versus 8.1) but less steals (1.2 versus 1.5)

Here is the biggest kicked .. . . They are both playing with 2 All stars or former all stars
In Kwahi's case he has 4 - Gasol, LaMarcus, Tony P, and Ginobili

Harden won more than Lebron in a strong conference
and Kwahi won as many as Harden when he was on the court.


Rocket River

 

I already posted that two weeks ago.

 

I am definitely not a fan of Westbrook, but those "without Russ" numbers are astonishing.

 

You don't understand the Kawhi love?
Both him and James have won 54 games. I get what you mean. Spurs went 7-1 without Kawhi. But context matters. Kawhi won 54 games in less games played. He played in 7 less games than Harden and still won the same amount. Then you can point that the Spurs went 7-1 w/o Kawhi, but again: context matters. Who exactly did they play? And which players were active for both teams?

At the time:
9-23 Suns
14-21 Blazers
9-35 Nets
28-17 Raptors
25-39 post-Boogie Kings
52-14 Warriors
32-47 Mavericks

I'm not out here campaigning for Kawhi but he has a very legitimate case for MVP. I think you and I both can make a better and more compelling argument for Harden than "Kawhi does not lead James Harden in *ANY* category except maybe steals." Since when are raw stats the end all be all? Yes, they matter but if that was the end all be all then why are we trying to act like Harden's numbers count, but Westbrooks dont? Arguing about raw stats is about as bad as an argument as possible and it's why Westbrook will win the MVP in a landslide. 31-11-10 is about as raw numbers as someone can get.

There are obvious differences between Kawhi and Harden. The position they play, their choice in hairstyle, the way they play, and their different body frames. To me the only actual huge differences is that Kawhi isn't nearly the playmaker that James Harden is, and that James Harden isn't nearly the defender that Kawhi is. When I think about Kawhi vs Harden I think what do I want more: Defense or playmaking? Both guys are subpar at one of those two.

No, there isn't a huge difference in team mates. I'm not taking Manu over Eric Gordon this season. I'm not taking Tony Parker in the regular season over Patrick Beverley. You can't say so-and-so plays with hall of fame players when for the most part those hall-of-fame players are way past their prime. Pat and EG had better regular seasons than Manu and Tony. Doesn't matter if the latter 2 have more experience. Experience doesn't matter if you can't play.

As for Dedmon, Gasol & Aldridge, yes they're better than Ryan, Nene, and Capela. Spurs frontcourt is better than ours, and our back court is better than theirs. But how good exactly are Gasol and Aldridge and how much better are they really? I get that Aldridge is a legit #2 or at least should be so that really favors Kawhi., but are we really going to cede the argument to Harden just because of Aldridge? And is Pau Gasol really an all-star in 2017? Are we really considering him an all-star because he played in the east and was selected as a replacement? I think these are questions for another time, but I truly don't think saying Kawhi shouldn't be the MVP because he plays with Aldridge and Gasol. We shouldn't punish players for having relatively good players around them.

I think people really underrate how good of a player Kawhi actually is. At least offensively they underrate him. Spurs play a slower pace than the Rockets, so it's no surprise Harden scores more ppg, but I believe we should try to at least factor in per 100 sometimes. per 100 isn't the defining thing of course, but it should be noted that Kawhi and Harden average 38.9 and 38.4 per 100 respectively. And Kawhi and Harden do it with a 61.1 and 61.3 TS% respectively.. essentially when it comes to pure scoring both are literally almost equal. Obviously, James still has to do more when it comes to offense which is what a person should argue if they're pro-Harden. It's what I'd argue. Spurs play in a more free flowing system where Kawhi doesn't necessarily has to create the play while James Harden needs to run the system in order for the Rockets to be successful. That'd be my argument. Kawhi is the key to his system performing elite while Harden literally is the system. Either way, both players are extremely important to their team's success.

I think it's obvious that in the past 3 decades with all the past great/elite players that aren't guards Kawhi is the least capable playmaker which should raise eyebrows. Bird, Barkley, Pippen, G. Hill, McGrady, KG, Pierce, Webber and some more. Then even the current guys: Bron, KD, Giannis, Hayward, Horford, Blake, Marc, PG13, and ect. While all better playmakers only a select few can say they're better defensively. And that's really the only argument someone can have with Kawhi. Does someone prefer defense or playmaking. I dunno, man. I think Kawhi and Harden should be a lot closer for who the MVP is instead of Russ and Harden. I get that Kawhi doesn't stuff the stat sheet nearly as much as Harden, but stuffing the stat sheet is literally the reason why Russ is winning the MVP this season despite Kawhi and Harden both having better seasons and winning more games.

 

My Point is every argument against Harden . . . .. is one against Kwahi
More Even

Rocket River

 

Hmm never seen it.

 

Probably a good thing. _holic says a lot of BS so at times best to skip over his posts

 

This is what happens when you have one guy taking all the shots and dominating the ball season hence everyone sitting around and just watching when they are told to do something they just don't know what to do. Simply because they are not use to it. Oladipo was a good in Orlando but he sucks now? no it is because the dude never gets the damn ball. Westi only makes himself look good.

 

If Russel wins it, fine by me.
Harden let it slide a little at the end with Rockets not winning so much. But that is ok.. I presume it was because he was preserving some energy for playoffs.

These stats are pointless, because they are nit regular season stats.

Why I believe Harden should win MVP? It's because, while I doubt Harden would achieve much more with Thunder crew, I am pretty sure Westbrook would achieve less with these Rockets.
Assisting is one thing, but shooters need touches (not neccessarily shots) to shoot well. With Westbrook, they are getting none of that.

 

In THAT context your statement is true. But there is a reality where Russell continues to find whichever one of those players are open (particularly on backdoor cuts) which he how the Thunder were building big leads in 1st and 2nd quarters. Why go into chuck-ball in the 4th?

It like I used to yell at McHale on TV... "stick with what is working!!!!!!!!"

 

As the game progresses, wouldn't the defense adjust to prevent those backdoor cuts? And if that's the case, wouldn't that force Westbrook to play chuck-ball in the 4th?

 

Is there a way to find his assist/turnover numbers in the 4th compared to the 1st three quarters during the series?

 

So Russ took more shots in all of the the 4th quarters then Oladipo (their 2nd leading shot taker) did in the entire series... nice.

 

Oladipo also shot worse than Rus.

 

Fair point. But the counterpoint is that in any sport it's difficult to play optimally when you only get sporadic touches; especially any task that requires hand-eye precision.

I suppose they would, but then the coach has to adjust to different plays. But I have a feeling the coach plays second fiddle to Russ's decision making; or else just doesn't want to risk giving Russ any kind of instruction in fear of getting fired. In first halves they were eating Harden alive on backdoor plays. By the fourth quarter they weren't even playing any kind of pick and roll. Just pure ISO-ball.

If our defense is so good that the Thunder could barely even ATTEMPT to run a play, why are we afraid of San Antonio at all?

 

The Westbrook-Harden debate is also raging on my Facebook wall... somehow...

I made this chart for kicks when someone said that "tons of other players could put up Westbrook's stats with as many shots per game."

A couple of notes:
Westbrook took 400 shots more than the next player.

In 2016 (next to Durant) he scored 1.30 total points per field goal attempt. In 2017, that improved to 1.32.

Now let's look at the other top 20 shots takers in 2017. Based on the chart, Westbrook would be #10 in points scored if everyone else got the same amount of shots (just from this list).

But that's not fair - because those guys would experience a drop in efficiency being a lone wolf. So look at column H; that's how much their efficiency would have to drop to match Westbrook. 17% for Harden, 13% for Isaiah Thomas, 10% for Lebron James. 6% for Towns, 5% for Steph Curry. Now bear in mind that Westbrook's points-per-attempt were actually flat (about +2%) with the departure of his star teammate.

Devin Booker was on one of the worst teams in the NBA having a great season but he only took 2 shots for every 3 of Russ's because he (and his coach) know that developing teammates is better than chucking a season away.

I would also like to take this opportunity to say that Carmelo Anthony sucks.

The box score is great for Westbrook but ANY digging into advanced analytics doesn't carry his case very well.

 

Lol... https://theringer.com/2017-nba-play...iannis-antetokounmpo-rajon-rondo-ec914ae6877d

In Oklahoma City’s first-round loss to the Rockets, Russell Westbrook dominated the ball more than Michael Jordan in Space Jam. Westbrook’s playoff usage of 45.8 was higher than MJ on the Tune Squad against the Monstars. Jordan had an excuse for his ball-hogging: He was teamed up with Bill Murray, Newman from Seinfeld, and a bunch of Looney Tunes characters. He’s also the GOAT.​

 

WOW at Thomas. I definitely knew he was balling, but WOW. COOL chart!

 

May be Presti should get a bunch of Looney Tunes character to build around Westbrook.