http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/04/30/nba-hd-offensive-orientation-and-re-estimating-orr/ Carl Landry came up in a conversation I had recently. In his rookie season in 2007-08, Landry grabbed 15.5 percent of the Rocket’s missed shots while he was on the floor, a rate that placed him atop the list of every player in the NBA. Remarkably, the Rockets found a guy in the second round of the draft who immediately stepped in as the best mess cleaner in the NBA. Not three years down the road. Immediately. And two seasons later, Landry is a below-average offensive rebounder at his position. As surprising as it might be, Landry isn’t a vacuum around his basket anymore. His offensive rebounding rate (ORR) could be micro-graphically illustrated by the backslash on the keyboard in front of you. From 15.5 percent in 2007-08, his ORR slid down to 10.3 percent in his sophomore campaign, and 8.5 percent this past season. But if we focus solely on his brief stint for Sacramento, his ORR stood at 7.1. If you’re scoring at home, you’ll notice that his once elite offensive rebound production has been slashed in half. ..... So let’s take a look at the player’s who went above and beyond what we would expect given their position, height, and their shooting orientation. (CHART) Without context, a 14.2 ORR is extraordinarily impressive but after you consider that Jordan Hill took almost half his shots from the perimeter, he looks even better. As a Knick, Jordan Hill collected tons of offensive rebounds and he might have been even more underrated than his 14.2 ORR would suggest, given his orientation on the Knicks offense. Some might see Jordan Hill as a deal throw-in but he possesses a knack for offensive rebounding not unlike his Rockets predecessor Carl Landry. ....
In your signature it says your happy to get unbanned. How do you even get banned on here? The mods on here are pretty cool and don't use the ban hammer as a way of feeling like they are god unlike some forums.
From the Article: He did? My recollection is he's usually haning around the basket and most his shots were interior ones off passes or rebounds. He takes an odd jumper here and there, but "almost half" is unbelievable to me. Maybe he did it with the Knicks? Weird.
I believe his improvement in the mid-range shooting has an effect on Landry's ORR. In other words, having a mid-range gun in hand his does not have to squeeze into the middle of the paint all the time to get his points. For example, in this last season at the Rockets, Landry could briefly lingering around the top of the key, waiting for catch and shoot opportunities. And this would no doubt decrease his chance to grab offensive boards.
He took 49 out of 198 from around the perimeter, which is only 25%. If they mean half of a half(1/4) of his shots., they would be right. :grin:
I believe that there are many factors that could be accounted for Landry's OOR number. #1 Team has figured him out after 2 seasons--Remember the days when Landry was an X factor while remaining as an unknown for the other teams? When he stepped up from times to times where the opponent double/tripe teaming Yao or T-Mac? That's when his OOR peaked because no one would pay attention to a rookie that was drafted in the 2nd round. The fact that T-Mac was declining and sitting on the bench was totally correlated to how Landry was being used as the #1 option when Yao was out on the bench. His main weapon evolved from getting rebounds and putback to those dead-eye mid-range jumper. He was really efficient as a scoring 4 because his agility is a mismatch to most of the PF in the nba but that took away his ability to get the offensive rebound. #2 He has definitely lost some of his explosiveness after the injury. I know this for sure because i have followed his whole career in the red jersey.
I think Landry's effort level his 1st year was just THAT crazy and maniacal in effort level. It was just TOO high and too unsustainable. He went at every loose ball literally like his life depended on it. Some of his rebounds were really ugly. It was more like a football tip drill, like he's competing with 6 other players for the ball, then on his 3rd jump he yanks it from everyone, then falls right to the ground with the ball tucked away under his arms. He can't pass the ball to a teammate or do anything with it. Just one big dogpile and higher chance of injury. All that effort for a jump ball or to call a timeout. And it'd be like that 5+ times a game. He made himself into a Dennis Rodman type to his credit, but really that wasn't his TRUE game in my opinion...if Dennis Rodman started shooting 6+ more jumpshots a game I think his rebounding would have went down as well. Though not near as much.
His rebound rate his rookie year was an abberation. In his rookie year he was playing with extreme effort, and he was unknown. He's wasn't a monster rebounder in college either. He's undersized at around 6'8, and he doesn't appear to have that rebound knack that the great rebounders do. I think Jordan Hill's rebound numbers will stick, he has good length, and he was a great rebounder in college, something that usually translates.
I don't think this statistic says anything bad about Landry. His role increases, he's playing more minutes. Back in the day when he was playing 20 minutes a game and no one ever ran plays for him, of course his ORR would be high. But now people actually give him the ball in the post and let him try and score. You only have so much energy to spend in the duration of the game. I think it's the combination of more minutes and the change of role that is bringing this number down.
While I agree with your assemsment, I tought Landry game evolved beyond just "cleaning up" misses. Not only did he expand his game beyond the paint(Wich took him further away from the paint) he became a low post option that drew double teams allowing other players to get OR's.
When you take shots, you have a less likely chance of getting offensive rebounds. When dream started shooting more, his rebounding went down. If landry was just the cleanup man he was his rookie year, his rebounding,would be the same or better
Landry's getting a lot more attention from the defense now. He's often double teamed when he gets the ball in the post. He's boxed out on every possession. That, combined with a loss of athleticism means less offensive boards.
i think as landry became a more complete offensive player, the team started to run more plays for him. he became the guy shooting the ball rather than the guy trying to get the rebound. not to mention that most of landry's shots came from the high post / mid range. if hill is here next year (lets hope he's helps us get bosh instead) you might expect to see the same trend as he becomes more polished on offense. simply, it's very difficult to offensive rebound when your the one shooting the ball.
