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Harden can be even better!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JW86, May 22, 2019.

  1. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    First off, I'd like to compliment Harden on leading this team since 2013. MDA has been a great coach for Harden to take the freedom McHale gave him, the truth and push that even further. Partly along with support of analytics in getting even deadlier from 3, but to me that's pure hard work paying off. The degree of difficulty of his patented step back / side step threes is crazy, not even the deemed 'best shooter in NBA history' in Curry can pull it off.

    With regards to shooting, I think he can definitely improve even more. He's already mastered FT shooting for ages, he's mastered the iso game, the euro step, throwing lobs, passing and shooting the 3. He already has a good base and knack for shooting from mid-to-long range inside the arc. Watch this clip below, he can post up and just shoot any shot he wants. If Harden can work on perfecting that mid-to-long range shot he can become the greatest version of himself.



    Not only would it diversify his offense, it would make it harder for the defense, give us more options on offense and open it up even more for out 3pt shooters. Now defensively I don't know much more he can do besides finding ways to be more effective and just put in the work in terms of boxing out, following your guy, try to get rid of the ball watching habit and really push himself to give more effort every single play.

    The guy balled out in the play-offs, there's no doubt about it, but with some diversifying of his offense and our offense in general, if it's not too late since it's really in the guys' system to just go for threes at all costs. I don't know if they practice threes way more than twos like that quote by Rivers indicated, but I'm sure Harden can do what he wants and if he would ask for this, I'm sure it's a done deal. However, at this point he probably just wants to work more on what the analytics supports and that's work on his threes, finishing at the rim and just on his body to endure another grind since he's relied on too much.

    You guys think it's realistic to expect Harden to work on other aspects of his game? Will he just go crazy on three point improvement and be deadlier? Can Harden be even better? Will he?
     
    RocketRed84, Zergling and LUK3 like this.
  2. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    Harden can switch to Tennis or any other single sports and dominate like Roger Federer.

    There are tons of tournaments in tennis and golf. Titles galore. Rather easily to become Number One too.

    No moar WBs and Currys.
     
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  3. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    If he can get to a statistically elite level from mid range for the first time in his career, in theory it's good. In reality, that's not realistically achievable over 1 summer. For him to become elite at something he's never been elite at and never been known for is too high an expectation.

    More realistic would be to just improve his 3pt shooting. We need to preserve him better, and the best way is for him to keep improving an already great 3pt repertoire. I feel like he CAN hit 40% from 3 in the regular season. That would be real insanity if he hits 40% from 3 with so many of them contested and in isolation.

    As far as how it helps us, if Harden is being guarded 4 feet away from the 3pt line with a 2nd defender helping, there is absolutely no more a star can do for a team. It's on the organization to put players around him who can capitalize on that situation regularly.

    From that perspective, the best thing Harden can do this summer is walk into Tilman's office and say:

    "Next season, I'm going to play for a team that spends as much as the rules allow plus an elite coaching staff. Same as Lebron's Cavs, same as Durant's Warriors, my team will spend into the luxury tax until we are almost hard capped and I don't care if that means signing vet minimum help until 2 PLAYOFF PLAYABLE guys are sitting on the bench because we're healthy and deep.

    Let me know if the Rockets are interested in that."


    This makes Harden, Morey and MDA's jobs easier. Of course if Tilman doesn't play along, at least we can be realistic and move on to rebuilding.
     
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  4. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Indeed. He can be much better in the playoffs.
     
  5. bobrek

    bobrek Proud A$$hat Mofo
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    It's an empty threat considering he is under contract....
     
  6. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

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    Skill wise, harden is the model prototype.

    The only thing that I can think can make him better is to have someone else that can share the load. So Harden can go at 2nd gear for most of the game before ramping it up in the 4th quarter.
     
  7. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    The Last 2 seasons James Harden has added

    Stepback 3

    Sidestep 3

    Tear drop Floater or a Alley Oop Dunk for Capela, very confusing for the big man

    Weakness

    Midrange

    Post Up

    Stamina, Asthma Issues since Childhood

    Killer Instinct, Taking Over the 4th Quarter, Tends to be Nonchalant in the 4th
     
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  8. Asian Sensation

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    7.5 assists and 5 TO per game in the regular season.

    6.6 assists per game and 4.6 TO per game in the playoffs.

    Those aren’t bad Assist To Turnover ratios They’re eyebrow raising WTF are you doing type of bad. Like historically bad.

    He’s led the league in turnovers the past 4 out of 5 years and 5 out of the last 7 years.

    #1 thing he should be doing in order to be better is stop pretending that he’s a PG. We have a real one on our team that we pay a lot of money to perhaps we should use him for what he good at. That means less Harden ISO and more Harden move without the ball.

     
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  9. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Sorry, but this is just a dumb analysis built around the outdated concept of value in "assist to turnover ratio". You don't don't get turnovers uniquely when trying to create assists, you also get them while trying to score. Almost nobody on those lists scores as prolifically or at the volume that Harden does, so its flawed at its premise.

    You want to correct the analysis change it too "points created to turnover ratio"
     
  10. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Needs to get dominant with his right hand. Passing and scoring. Love Harden, I know he has it in him to win us the chip.
     
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  11. Asian Sensation

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    How is “assist to turnover ratio” an outdated concept? When exactly did it become outdated? When James Harden became a Houston Rocket?

    A turnover is a turnover whether you turn it over with a bad pass, get the ball stolen or blocked trying to score etc. Harden’s low assist output in ratio to his high turnovers is a fact based on real numbers not “dumb analysis”.

    I’m looking for ways for us to be more efficient ie still score as much if not more overall while limiting Harden’s turnovers/usage. It doesn’t always have to be a Harden ISO in order to score a basket.
     
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  12. caneks

    caneks Rookie

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    ASTs don't create additional possessions, but Turnovers decrease your total possessions. So having less TOs is much more important than making more ASTs.
     
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  13. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    That's not up to Harden to decide. It's MDA and Morey. And it's not like they're that far off from the right equation.

    You say we shouldn't isolate, but we came very close to beating them by playing isolation. In fact, it's probably been the most effective style to play against GSW.

    This playoffs, GSW adjusted and doubled when the screen was coming instead of worrying about the roll man. It made the passing to the roll man harder, and the roll man was typically not good enough to score in the paint over the bigger bodies they have.

    At some point, you just have to admit that we face some very tough opponents. And there's other intangibles, like Harden being injured and playing through them.

    I can't put it on Harden. I eventually end up putting it on MDA, Morey. I don't think they're far off, but they need to adjust their formula.
     
  14. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Eh. The TEAM had the 5th least turnovers and the 9th lowest turnover rate. Harden had the ball waaaay more than he did last year and the turnover number reflects that.

    Individual turnover numbers just seem flawed to me. One guy plays 36 minutes, touches the ball 80 times and has possession for 10+ minutes per game and has 5 turnovers. Another guy plays 32 minutes, touches the ball 40 times and has possession for 4 minutes and turns it over 3 times.

    The individual turnovers per game say one thing, but around the other factors it’s clear to see who has a bigger turnover problem.
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    It is a bit overrated, because it doesn't really count things like hockey assists. Also doesn't specify if the ballhandler just pounded the ball then makes one pass and a guy is forced to shoot (rondo is famous for this). And the turnovers don't specify which kind- are they live ball which lead to fast breaks?

    Unfortunately harden's post 2015 slow style makes these things worse for him, but he still creates tons of 3s and dunks, probably as much as any player
     
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  16. c1utchfan925

    c1utchfan925 Contributing Member

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    Harden could work on being a knock down 3pt shooter off the ball
     
  17. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    No, it's a dumb analysis, as stated, comparing turnovers to assists makes no sense if you can generate turnovers on non passing plays, specifically at a high volume. Relying on it would suggest that Harden is inefficient passer, which he absolutely is not.

    Player A:
    Takes 25 shots, Scores 43 points, commits 4 turnovers while trying to score
    Makes 15 passes, assists 7, to create 14 points, commits 1 turnovers while passing

    Produces 57 points, with 5 turnovers. (11.4 points per turnover) (1.4-1 Assist to TO ratio)

    Player B:
    Takes 6 shots, scores 4 points, commits 1 turnover while trying to score
    Makes 15 passes, assists 7, to create 14 points, commits 1 turnover while passing

    Produces 18 points, with 2 turnovers (9 points per turnover) (3.5-1 Assist to TO Ratio)

    Despite the worse Assist to turnover ratio, which is worthless, player A is far and away better and a more efficient producer of points than player B.

    Asking James Harden, who is already one of the greatest offense players of all time, to further increase his efficiency, because his assist to turnover ratio is not good enough, is completely unreasonable and frankly impossible.

    This is a gross misinterpretation of how to use stats and analysis, and clearly illustrates why assist to turnover ratio is worthless.
     
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  18. Rasheed

    Rasheed Member

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  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Value the ball - stop making lazy passes.

    DD
     
  20. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    That's not how power works. He will go the AD route and then they will have to shelve him to protect him from injuries while he eats up 35% of the salary cap.

    He's earned whatever he wants to do. I don't see the top tier superstars accepting their owner being a drama queen about the tax in a profitable city. Hell, DAN GILBERT paid tens of millions of dollars out of his personal pocket (i.e. it doesn't always have to be a business) to preserve a team that didn't look like it could beat the Warriors, but did.
     
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