Golden State not going to the White House

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by HardenMvp, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    Again, it's not about standing next to Trump. Attending the White House celebration is not akin to "standing next to him," except in the most literal sense. I didn't say sports was dividing us. I said it used to unite us. But now politics has creeped into the one thing we used to be able to come together on because these players can't separate the man from the office.

    What you're suggesting is no different than what the other side is saying. Everyone thinks it's the other guys job to show the first sign. At some point someone has to break the mold and be the bigger man. I don't expect it to ever be Trump.

    And for the record, he's not ordering Muslims to leave the country. In fact, the most populous Muslim country wasn't even on the list of banned countries.
     
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  2. RocketDream

    RocketDream Member

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    Politics has been a part of all facets of life, including sports, for decades. Muhammad Ali, Tommie Smith and John Carlos, etc. Tom Brady chose not to visit the White House when Obama was there. It's burying your head in the sand to pretend that politics is just a game that sits in a separate box from other things in life. Politics affects people's lives profoundly and athletes are people, too. Just as I'd expect normal people to care about politics, I'd expect athletes too, as well. They shouldn't separate the man (who's doing the things that affect people's lives) from the office. That's just stupid, IMO.
     
  3. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    And you're entitled to your opinion and to see the world as you wish. I disagree. I'm not saying that there has never been politics in sports. I'm saying MOST people turn to sports as a release from the rest of the world, in particular politics. It's a game. Of course the players are people and have the same rights as we do. Please don't think that I don't believe they have a right to speak. They can attend the White House ceremony and still speak out against what they perceive to be injustices. I didn't support Tom Brady doing it either.

    I'd much rather see the GSW go, say something about how the feel, than just turn their backs. To me, that just seems childish and disrespectful to the office. The office that the country elected this man to. The man many of their fans support. Some of you act like being in the same room as him = supporting him or justifying the things he has done and said. I don't agree with that logic.
     
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  4. RocketDream

    RocketDream Member

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    The game is between the lines of the court. Anyone following what the athletes are doing in "real life" (outside the game itself) is not "turning to sports"--they're turning to real life, the athletes' real lives. So this argument doesn't make any sense. At least if they were doing their protest in the middle of a game, I could understand this line of reasoning. Calling anything to do with athletes' real lives "sports" is nonsensical.

    I just can't see someone saying, "Wow, that was a rough day. I know that basketball season is over, but to unwind, I think I'll check in with the latest news on what the Warriors are going to do this off-season...oh my god, no, can't I go anywhere without hearing about politics? I just wanted my sports fix!"

    Does that sound like a reasonable thing that's happening to millions of people today? Or is it more likely that people with political interests are reading and forwarding this to their friends with political interests and saying, "Look at this! Can you believe this awesome/horrible gesture? I really hate libtards/cuckservatives!"

    I think that second scenario is more likely--people engaged in politics are engaging in politics.

    They can also not go to the White House. I don't really understand a lot of people's fixations with trying to define how people should show disgust (short of violence). I have little doubt that if the Warriors went to the White House and denounced him there, tons of people (perhaps you included) would say that it's incredibly disrespectful and rude. Choosing not to go is neither disrespectful nor rude. It's choosing not to associate with a man they find detestable.

    That's cool. If you're ever in their place, you should do things the way you'd "much rather see them done." And I'll support your choice and be scornful if the Warriors players say you're "doing it wrong."
     
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  5. RocketsTruth

    RocketsTruth Member

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    I have NEVER liked the warriors, going back to when steve kerr kept harden from winning all-star game mvp mvp by benching him in the 4thquarter in favor of westbrook because harden was getting too much shine over curry in 2015

    their whole organization, is about whats good for THEM, not about the game of basketball
     
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  6. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    @RocketDream

    I consider a team event to recognize their championship season a sport event. Just as I would consider something at practice, in the locker room, or any other time they are representing themselves as an NBA player, as a sports event. I don't think that's unreasonable, but perhaps you disagree. I'm also not suggesting that politics have never crossed into sports, but it has become more prevalent as of late and for many of us, it's annoying. It's not just this specific incident. You can't go to ESPN.com without seeing politics.

    You don't understand how people see things differently and think certain decisions are wiser than others? It's not that hard to understand. I see an opportunity to achieve both goals, I see their decision only accomplishing one goal. We have every right to critique and criticize things we don't agree with. It makes me no more right or wrong than you. They're simply our own opinions and perspectives of certain situations.

    I find it hard to believe that you've never seen a person, in any arena, do something, and said, "man, wouldn't it be better if they did it this way?" Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but you have ever right to have those opinions and discussions. It seems like you don't want to agree with me because you agree with them. My position isn't based on my agreement or disagreement with their political stance, my disagreement stems from their goals and how they could achieve those goals in another fashion.
     
  7. Rokman

    Rokman Member

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    You don't actually pay attention to what he does do you. You just read headlines and jump on the bandwagon. Educate yourself and F The Warriors.
     
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  8. rhino17

    rhino17 Member

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    the first likable thing the warriors have done
     
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  9. RocketDream

    RocketDream Member

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    That really isn't it. I'm on their side politically, but I also don't explain how conservatives "should" protest (again, outside of condemning violence on either side). To me, what you're doing is "concern trolling"--what they're doing violates your sense of what's right but you're trying to pretend that you're actually trying to show them a better way. You only have their best interests at heart.

    I also have issues with the whole idea of "keep politics out of X" because I see it as an attempt to shut down certain people from expressing their views. Sports and entertainment are done by humans with human concerns. Politics affect everyone. Nothing will ever be "free" of politics or other human concerns. People generally tend to weigh in with "keep politics out of X" when it's not their politics. You say you didn't approve of Brady doing the same thing, but did you post a bunch of posts here about how Brady should be the bigger man and make an effort to unify the nation? If you did, I'd commend your consistency at least--but still consider it misguided (even though I don't share Brady's politics).

    Lastly, I disagree with the idea that "Someone has to be the bigger person and put partisanship aside." No one ever suggests that "their side" should be the one to put partisanship aside and unilaterally disarm. It's always someone else who should. While I like the utopian principle of "post-partisanship," it's impossible in reality and seeing people sanctimoniously suggest other people lead the charge is annoying to me.

    So that's the basic laundry list of why I've been arguing with you, not because I agree with the Warriors that Trump is an awful President (which I do).
     
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  10. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    I absolutely am not trying to pretend I have THEIR best interest at heart. I have the country's best interest at heart. I see this as just a incredibly high profile example of how divided our country has become and I would prefer to see the Warriors make a different decision. While you may not believe it because you don't actually know me or my ideals, it's true.

    Was there a thread about Brady not attending the White House? I don't even know. I took a long break from even commenting on these types of threads because of how angry people become and down right insulting they can be when people don't agree with them. I absolutely welcome debate and have thoroughly enjoy a good discussion. But do I have to tune into to Clutchfans after every incident to ensure "consistency?" I'm commenting on this particular situation because it's relevant and it's high profile.

    And I absolutely wish "my side," which, by the way, isn't with Trump, would stand up and be the bigger man. I just know that Trump is a petulant child and would never do it. It's also not Trump making this decision, it's the Warriors, so I can only comment on THEIR decision, as we discuss this PARTICULAR incident. If we want to be more generic, then yes, it's on every single one of us and every single leader to take a step forward.

    The Warriors are making a decision. Based on their stated goals, I think they'd achieve those goals and accomplish more by doing it another way. Am I supposed to just keep my mouth shut because it's their decision? That's part of being a public figure. You're decisions are public. If anyone gave a damn about me and my decisions were published in the news, should I expect nobody to have an opinion or a different perspective?

    Lastly, I'm not trying to shut down their view points. They have ample opportunity to express those points of view at any other time that they are not at a team function recognizing their achievement of winning the NBA title. This isn't a back yard BBQ the President just invited a few Warriors players to. This is a team function recognizing the team's sports achievement. It wouldn't bother me at all if they got on twitter, or the news, or started a foundation, etc to express their views. I am in disagreement with THIS particular action.
     
  11. RocketDream

    RocketDream Member

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    @Kevooooo

    That's all reasonable. In general, in a lot of these cases, I find a high level of inconsistency in such issues, which I consider to completely undercut the concepts. I can't really find fault with your viewpoints as you've laid them out and I agree that you don't need to abide by some specific standard of proof that you're consistent.

    I still don't agree that choosing to stay away from the White House is wrong-headed or disrespects the very office of the Presidency and the nation as a whole. Nor do I think it's better to simply punt on such a high-profile moment to make a statement and save it for Twitter, where very few people will see it.

    But i will concede that there's nothing inherently wrong with you criticizing their decision to do so. It's all reasonable grist for discussion. Most of my criticism of your criticism came from assumptions I made (not literally about your positions, but that you'd only weigh in when convenient).
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't go either, Trump is a racist ass.

    DD
     
  13. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    Yeah the only reason people don't like him is because they don't understand him. :rolleyes:

    #StayWoke right, lmfaoooo.
     
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  14. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg Member

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    Why did I click? Why can't I be blessed with more self control..???:(
     
  15. RocketsTruth

    RocketsTruth Member

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    basically black people like me who want to earn an honest living like white people support trump, black people who are lazy dont support him. Black athletes hate trump because they dont want black people getting enough money on their own to be their neighbors or live as nice as them, crab in a barrell mentality
     
  16. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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    I'm shocked.
     
  17. conquistador#11

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    did you guys know that it was actually the president of the U.S that didn't acknowledge Jesse owens and not the fuhrer? this according to words of owens, in fact the fuhrer actually waved at owens
    I found it interesting as I went into a giant rabbit hole searching for sport political snubs.
     
  18. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    I don't like Trump, but you gotta respect the office itself. Not showing up to an invite wouldn't be right. He's our president regardless of your stance and he still isn't Hitler as bad as he is.
     
  19. red5rocket

    red5rocket Member

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    You can respectfully decline the offer
     
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  20. dandorotik

    dandorotik Contributing Member

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    You're truly a stereotyping moron.
     
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