1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Gary Payton says Rockets 'won't be good in playoffs because they don't play defense'

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by T_Man, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Messages:
    5,180
    Likes Received:
    507
  2. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    40,143
    Likes Received:
    33,060
  3. BigBum

    BigBum Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,341
    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Crazy thing is give up 158 points to wizards in 48 minutes and 14:46 in first quarter. This is not professional level,
     
    Highlyrated likes this.
  4. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,697
    Likes Received:
    4,409
    but people on CF told me defense doesnt matter 'in todays NBA' - its all about having the firepower to outscore the GSW...


    ...or have we decided that narrative was shortsighted crap?
     
  5. Bids9

    Bids9 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    614
  6. bmelo

    bmelo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    according to here Harden is goat while playing defense on ymca level (both skill and effort)
     
    Highlyrated likes this.
  7. omgTHEpotential

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    6,499
    Likes Received:
    4,224
    I think the issue is that to compensate for our current defensive level we would need to have a historically great offense on a consistent basis to have a shot at a title.
     
    BigShasta, D-rock, cheke64 and 2 others like this.
  8. Pringles

    Pringles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,922
    Likes Received:
    502
    Love these hot takes.

    I wonder what Tracy McGrady has to say? Paul Pierce?

    Is water wet?
     
    Patience, D-rock, Ramo$e and 3 others like this.
  9. jcmoon

    jcmoon Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,428
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    He's nowhere close to the goat.....no way he gets those numbers without the ball in mikes system.....our defense sucks primarily because of him....he's a tweener who can't guard anyone well and everyone else has to switch out of position because of him...

    Damn I miss Hakeem....at least he gave a **** when we got our ass kicked....he wouldn't put up with players not giving a damn coming into camp out of shape....harden would rather have off season parties while focusing on the scoring title, commercials, endorsements, his next contract , and bitching about not winning MVP.

    It's truly a damn shame....
     
  10. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    8,662
    Likes Received:
    6,014
    Oh, Okay..Gary..

    Man, by the end of the year, this won't be the same team personnel wise...and, James will be tip top. He and Russ will long ago have figured it out.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    55,755
    Likes Received:
    16,310
    Boy, those coming out of the woodwork.
     
  12. Gabe0941

    Gabe0941 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    286
    Too early to tell. Wait til after ASB
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    33,518
    Likes Received:
    35,197
    Defense has always mattered and anyone that said otherwise is foolish.

    To win a title you usually need a top 5 offense and a top 5 defense........ one can be better than the other but you better be close to, if not elite at both.

    The Rockets defensive issues are not as simple as "James Harden" or "Russell Westbrook".........

    The Rockets have had a perfect storm converge to cause their defensive issues.

    The Rockets replaced possibly the best overall defensive point guard in the league with someone that is capable defensively but also undisciplined at times. Chris Paul was perfect for the Rockets switch heavy system. His switches were predictable and everyone had confidence he would be where he was supposed to be. Westbrook is a very physically capable defender when interested and when his usage isn't insane. However he is from a different system and back ground and he gambles defensively. He has not switched when other have and has attempted to play more man.

    Second the Rockets brought in a new DC and changed the system that they had relied on for years. Turner coaches differently than Bzdelik and he is trying to implement a hybrid system. The issue is that the players are not all on the same page on when to switch and also seem confused by the system, which has caused wide open 3's and transition baskets. Supposedly we will see them dumb down the defense but so far it has been a disaster.

    Third, the Rockets lack the personnel needed to execute their game plan. The Rockets want to push the pace with Westbrook. His game does not meld well with Capela. As a result the spacing is off and defensively Capela does not offer a strong enough post presence and does not switch fast enough. Further, he has a 6'5" PF next to him that is 33 years old. What the Rockets are trying to do requires athletic, mobile wings with long wingspans and the ability to hit an open 3 at 33% or better. The Rockets don't have that other than a nearly 40 year old Thabo.

    House has improved some defensively...... and Chandler is capable of providing some post presence on defense for 10-15 minutes a game, but they struggle running with him.

    So with the personnel that they have defensively, they are better running the old scheme and not pushing the ball......... but that goes against what the Rockets want to do offensively and that also goes against the strengths of Westbrook.

    Something has to give..... either they simplify the defense and slow down or they make trades for the proper personnel for a fast paced team that also defends.

    The upside is obviously high with a fast paced offense that acquires a couple wings inside, but the Rockets have limited assets and that requires moving Capela. The safer bet with less upside is to do what they did last year stylistically.... but it wasn't good enough to win a title last year.

    The owner needs to either go all in or support being good but not great.
     
  14. smp

    smp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes Received:
    2,819
    The only former player that could possibly like our defense is Reggie Miller. He would have been perfect for this system of shoot all you want (as long as it’s from 3) and never defend anyone.

    The Glove is definitely going to be disgusted by it.
     
    txtodd likes this.
  15. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    33,518
    Likes Received:
    35,197
    If you think that the Rockets defense sucks primarily because of James Harden, then you haven't paid attention. The Rockets struggles go well beyond a single player.

    Second, Hakeem did come into camp out of shape some seasons and even was accused of faking an injury to not play by his own team.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  16. topfive

    topfive CF OG
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    15,254
    Likes Received:
    26,140
    But scoring 159 points in 48 minutes against anybody is ludicrous-mode professional.
     
    Patience likes this.
  17. Fishman5222

    Fishman5222 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    55
    What are you talking about? Where is all of the bitching? Love the out of shape comments. It took Hakeem a long time to learn how to win. He threw teammates under the bus and was selfish. He is my favorite player ever, but he wasn't perfect. He kept getting better. Isn't that what Harden has done? He has led a team that has gone toe to toe with the Warriors. Was it enough? No. But he has kept on grinding. He had the worst game in history in a clinching game against the Spurs. That's a long time ago. He's the second best player of the franchise, and a lot of the great players like Pippen and McGrady can't carry his jock.
     
    D-rock and HP3 like this.
  18. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    7,812
    Likes Received:
    9,202
    First off, I wanna say Ali appreciate what Westbrook has done so far. Defense is the biggest concer obviously.

    We have some offensive questions as well. What’s gonna happen when teams force Harden right, what about when teams dare Westbrook to shoot.
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    47,418
    Likes Received:
    12,199
    Rockets need to go completely asymmetric this year.

    Full court Press after made 3 pointers. Attempt 70 a game. Don't contest 2 pointers in certain situations.

    Gimme some of the dem sweet sweet gimmicks that will make all of the Jockocracy commentariat retch and puke.

    We have the team in place for insanity. Plus it will not cost Tillman anything which is the most important thing.
     
  20. jcmoon

    jcmoon Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,428
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    i've watched every game...the others are playing bad defense, but we have no other choice but to switch everything even if they were all in shape. And we have to have ariza's and beverleys at other positions to make up for his ass....those players are hard to find.

    hakeem was like that early on, not later in his career....

    "Do you want to win? "...his quote to maxwell....
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now