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Frustration and Doubt seeping in.....

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Francis3422, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. Francis3422

    Francis3422 Member

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    I give Mr. Morey all the props in the world for the way he has drafted since he has been here. We have made the best out of some mediocre/late first round picks. Taken draft picks that usually amount to notta and turned it into rotation players. Maybe in the case of AB a semi-star. An incredible incredible job.

    We also aren't particularly weighed down by crap contracts other than the walking wounded/lazy.

    And Morey did deliver on Artest, when we needed a 3rd guy. Who knows what could of been? Had health and egos been of good spirit......


    But...... A lot of the things now that I feel are frustrations and I am starting to wonder if we are valuing out players too high...... I always thought the idea of accruing these chips like a Landry, Budinger, Brooks, Scola even Llull were because they were going to be part of a trade-in one day. At the very least, that has been my mindset since last February and especially the summer days after finding out bout Yao.

    The thing about a trade-in is that you probably aren't going to get fair value on all parts. Not everything is about rape. Ron Artest (in retrospect) cost us a lot. Worth it, but costly. We gave up multiple assets then for Ron Artest, what does Morey think he is going to pull? The thing about the Ron Ron thing is we all love Morey for it. Being at Toyota Center last year in game 6 was worth Omri Cassippi and Donte Green.

    We have to be ready to take that mindset now. We need a guy other than Aaron Brooks. We need a guy that is gonna get 20 points consistently. We have to be prepared to lose a player that we have valued very high in our system. I love Chase Budinger, but in the end, by our luck or skill we got an asset with the 40whatever pick. Sell high. Luis Scola is great, but is he really going to get better? Do we really want to resign him for the 1-2 year run we attempt before Yao goes down again (and for good?).

    We can always play above expectations and still fall short of any major accomplishments in this league. The talent level of opposing teams is just too high.


    Morey wasn't able to move last year(deadline), and the Ariza signing is debateable as a positive. I think being shrewd is good, but in all good trades both parties lose something. I just can't help but wonder if Moreys reputation in the league is hurting a bit, and that we are honestly expecting too much.


    I really hope I am wrong.

    I wonder if the camaraderie that Carroll Dawson shared with other older league executives was not more valuable that we give him credit for?
     
  2. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    I wonder in part about the relationships between GMs, as in....

    There is an insider---valid? who knows---on the realgm boards who believes that Cleveland and Philly will make a deal involving Iggy. That the GMs of the two teams have a friendly relationship, they know each other, etc. He mentions more than that, but I'll leave the rest as unimportant for now, because who knows what'll happen in the next 12 days.

    Skip to Morey. Tends to make trades with the same teams. Memphis. Sacramento. Is friendly with Minnesota's GM.

    Seems like when these GMs don't have much of a rapport to begin with, they aim too high. Washington's GM recently asked for Rudy and Batum when Portland asked about Haywood. Which is a gigantic joke. If Grunfeld extends the same sort of request to Morey, I can see how Daryl won't give up one of our rotation guys for a near-30 year-old Butler or a 33 year-old Haywood.

    Wouldn't be surprised if any deal that goes down involves Chicago (Salmons and Miller played for Rick Adelman, I believe; even Hinrich could be in play there) or involves teams that, again, have a good working relationship with Morey: Memphis, Sacramento, Boston (less likely), Minnesota.
     
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  3. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    It's really hard to say with these things. Especially since we don't know how our players will evolve nor who offered what in the trade talks.

    For example, Morey once nixed an Artest deal because Sacramento asked for Brooks as the prospect back. We waited a bit and sent them Greene instead. OTOH, Morey waited too long to trade T-Mac. And now he no longer has any value besides being an expiring.

    So indeed, hindsight is 20/20. But I feel overall, Morey's doing the best one can reasonably expect out of him. Remember just how barren we were back when Morey took over. Remember the days when we had behind T-Mac/Yao the likes of Alston, JHo, Head, Bogans, Flying Ryan, Swift, Baxter, etc.? The man has literally rebuilt our entire cupboard of role players from just about nothing. You can't question his decision-making with that kind of success.
     
  4. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    1 more week.

    Keep in mind NO team has traded ANYTHING of value except Golden State and Charlotte months back. Frustration and doubt might be impatience ?
    :)

    I see what you mean, though... you see all this trade chatter and its like they keep on skipping on the deals. We know what WE would do, but what we would do isnt always how the NBA itself works. NBA teams are last minute shoppers, and its not "quite" the last minute yet.

    Plus the deals we see in speculation and rumor all season are never what actually transpires. All we DO know is 75% of in season trades happen right at or after the All Star game.
     
  5. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    I don't mean to be rude - but that's your mistake isn't it?

    Morey seems to bring people in to 'play ball' and making a move is to get better value.

    Doesn't SEEM to draft only to trade unless that trade is made on draft day (or soon thereafter)
     
  6. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    what do you want? there are no great trades out there. bosh, martin, and paul are not on the market. who are the stars that are available? iggy? he is a very good player but it is pretty clear why morey does not want to take on his contract plus dalembert's crap contract+trade kicker to acquire iggy's very long and expensive contract. iggy is a #3 type player on a championship level team and paying 25% of the expected $52 million cap (actually a lot more if you add in what we would pay for dalembert to get him) for a guy of his calibur is certain tough to do. .

    do you want amare? we have to sign him to a max deal if we want to acquire him and i don't think that is the greatest thing. stellar offense but marginal defense and i still don't trust that knee he had microfracture on. microfracture isn't a permanent fix. trust me...i know that from experience.

    maybe morey does overvalue his assets, however we do have some VERY valuable and talented assets relative to what we pay them. as fans, let's try to not undervalue what we have. btw i do agree on trying to sell high on chase...but who knows what teams are really willing to pay for him.
     
  7. aussie rocket

    aussie rocket Member

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    Hey Doc, I don't mean to be rude, but I think you'll find the sig you have up is making me look pretty spot-on.

    I guess I should thank you. But considering your intention was to make me look bad .... ah hell.. cheers mate.
     
  8. el_locoteee

    el_locoteee Member

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    Morey bring the people, but then RA play whoever he wants.
     
  9. jsonic6

    jsonic6 Contributing Member

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    I think we just had high expectations at the beginning of the season when we were doing so good for the first 30 games. Now you can tell that the fast paced offense is catching up to us. The player's bodies are wearing down and now are more injury prone. The opposing teams are also scouting us more and they now know what to expect...

    I myself am also guilty of having high expectations placed on the team when we were doing good in the beginning of the season. But, reality is setting in and we just have to accept the fact that even though Brooks and Landry are having a breakout season, this is a developmental year for the Rox and until we can get some good pieces before the deadline, don't expect too much from the team.

    It is not the fault of DM. It's not like we can pick up a high profile star with a snap of a finger... I think he, along with RA, is doing a great job with what we have. Who knows, the deadline is still days away. Maybe he's got something under wraps... We can only wait and see.
     
  10. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    I agree with many of your points but I do think this post is at least about 11 days early.

    Last nights game I think was very valuable. It showed both teams exactly how valuable the trade could be for them.

    Philly say just how good and how valuable Lowry is.

    Houston saw that Iggy is truly a two way contributor and even when having a pedestrian night scoring can be clutch when it counts. Dalembert played solid defense and grabbed 10 boards and a block in only 24 minutes of play.

    I think this was an important game for both teams to showcase possible trade pieces.

    And yes I would think that Morey would be willing to give up something in order to get something. I think he would be very hesitant to give up Chase because I think he probably sees his development to be similar to that of Brooks. Chase IMO is going to be a serious starter in this league in another year or two. Having said that, if push came to shove and a deal that was going to make the Rockets better not only next season but for the next several seasons I would probably eventually relent. And I also agree that one of either Scola or Landry are expendable in the right trade.
     
  11. shortfuse3

    shortfuse3 Member

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    i think we do overvalue our players. for example adelman's system caters toward their PG's so brooks is at his best with the ball in his hands, but is he really better than a mo williams or a johnny flynn?

    i think if brooks was on any other team his minutes would be reduced. we ask a lot from him since he's our only ball handler and scorer.
     
  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I am neither Frustrated nor disappointed

    I probably overvalue our players. . . esp our homegrown players

    I think of it like this. . . .
    This team is EVERYTHING you want in a team
    except for 2 SUPERSTARS

    Well . .. ONE STAR will be back next year
    and
    ONE STAR WILL COME OFF THE BOOKS making room for another star.

    So next year. . we are PRIMED for a DEEP run in to the playoffs
    this year .. . we getting ALOT of experience in some young guys

    Rocket River
    I AM PUMPED!!
     
  13. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    I think that we're missing something...something that's going to change this team A LOT....oh yeah 40 FREAKIN MILLION!!


    I get it, it sucks to lose, to not have the reachable goal of winning a ring...i get it...but it gets old when fans talk about this season like we're healthy and our team still isnt getting it done and our staff is not doing anything about it. We're missing huge pieces, important pieces...because of that everyone else is out of their comfort zone...we need to just realize that and suck it up this year..
     
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  14. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    Trading away or for role players or secondary stars is much, much easier done than trading away or for star players. Morey has been great at the first thing, and that is what makes him a very good GM.

    Getting a good trade that either gives up or gets back a star though, is almost more dependent on luck -- being in the perfect place at the perfect time.
     
  15. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

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    Hmmmmm..but in this financial climate AND with the new CBA coming up??? taking on salary alone is worth thinking twice about let alone giving up talent. if anything I'd try to keep Bud and maybe give up jermaine or dorsey or something
     
  16. MrAwe

    MrAwe Member

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    I don't like the idea of bringing in those two players. Sure it's good to have players who understands RA's system but how will it affect the chemstry? Will RA's love for certain players(Ariza for one) extend? How will the other players feel? Too much to risk.
     
  17. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Eh, am I the only one who thinks stars are overrated? I mean, obviously the true superstars in the league are a cut above because they do something nobody else can, but how many of them are there?

    In my book the only true "unique" superstars (excluding old dudes like Dirk, Duncan and KG) in the league are LBJ, KD, DH and CP3, and maybe Bosh. That's it. Guys like Kobe and Wade, although pretty good, do stuff that are done by a lot of guys in the league (Granger, Iggy, etc.). The only difference is that Kobe and Wade do it consistently, but you can make up for it by having multiple guys who can do it in the roster. Take Ray Allen for example. He was signed to provide perimeter scoring and back up Pierce and KG, but the Celtics are finding out you can get similar production from guys who make just a fraction of Allen's salary.

    By this light, the entire league thinks DM overvalues his players and he's asking too much, but maybe he's the only one who values our players correctly. If that were the case it would be better to stay put rather than make trades for the sake of making trades. Remember next year Yao Ming will be back, and in the worst case scenario we let Tmac expire we'll have 7m free. That's enough to sign a Mike Miller/Jrich type of player, and IMHO that's the only player we need right now, an offensively capable player who can play alongside Brooks and Battriza.
     
  18. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Eh, am I the only one who thinks stars are overrated? I mean, obviously the true superstars in the league are a cut above because they do something nobody else can, but how many of them are there?

    In my book the only true "unique" superstars (excluding old dudes like Dirk, Duncan and KG) in the league are LBJ, KD, DH and CP3, and maybe Bosh. That's it. Guys like Kobe and Wade, although pretty good, do stuff that are done by a lot of guys in the league (Granger, Iggy, etc.). The only difference is that Kobe and Wade do it consistently, but you can make up for it by having multiple guys who can do it in the roster. Take Ray Allen for example. He was signed to provide perimeter scoring and back up Pierce and KG, but the Celtics are finding out you can get similar production from guys who make just a fraction of Allen's salary.

    By this light, the entire league thinks DM overvalues his players and he's asking too much, but maybe he's the only one who values our players correctly. If that were the case it would be better to stay put rather than make trades for the sake of making trades. Remember next year Yao Ming will be back, and in the worst case scenario we let Tmac expire we'll have 7m free. That's enough to sign a Mike Miller/Jrich type of player, and IMHO that's the only player we need right now, an offensively capable player who can play alongside Brooks and Battriza.
     
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  19. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Was it necessary to repeat yourself? lol :p
     
  20. Williamson

    Williamson JOSH CHRISTOPHER ONLY FAN
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    Well, one factor you're completely over-looking is the economy and the effect that is having on teams. We've seen reports that the only teams willing to take on salary right now are the Rockets, Cavs and Mavs.

    Couple that with the fact that there seems to be a shift in what players are commanding in salary and that there are still players with old max contracts - things just get messy.

    Trevor Ariza is a fine example. When Morey signed him, he said he did so because he felt like he was a value at the salary and he'd continue to be an asset both as a player or a trade asset. Yet, how many teams right now are willing to take on the additional salary of a guy like Trevor Ariza? Apparently, only the Mavs and Cavs - except he isn't the guy they're looking for. Eventually, however, the economy will pick up (we all hope), teams will be making more money again, and they'll be a little more willing to take on guys like Ariza.

    Beyond that, we're basically only looking for stars. We have role players galore. When you look at the success this team has had without it's stars, it's clear we have one of the deepest teams in the league. How many teams are trading stars? The guys we're hearing about on the block aren't even all-stars. Stoudemire and Jamison may be the only all-stars on the market right now. Bosh seems to have been taken off the block. The other guys we're hearing about are guys like Iguodala, Butler, Carlos Boozer and Kevin Martin. And obviously we've had BimaThug and others covering how a lot of those deals could make it impossible to re-sign Scola or Lowry. Thus, none of those deals are no-brainers. They might slightly improve our team this year, but that isn't worth much if it hurts us going into the future.

    So yeah, it isn't easy to be Daryl Morey right now. But I trust that if there is a move out there to improves the Rockets, he'll make it. And if there isn't, he won't.

    The most important thing is that we don't lose sight of the fact that we're looking to improve this team for next season and beyond. Not just make a minor move to help us become first round fodder this season.
     

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