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Former Rockets Coach JVG wants an end to FLOPPING!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rockets34Legend, May 30, 2007.

  1. Rockets34Legend

    Rockets34Legend Contributing Member

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    http://www.salon.com/sports/col/kaufman/2007/05/29/tuesday/?source=whitelist

    King Kaufman's Sports Daily

    Death to floppers! Change the charge rule! Play defense! An angry Jeff Van Gundy livens up ESPN's playoff broadcasts.


    May 29, 2007 | Boy, am I liking Jeff Van Gundy on the ESPN broadcasts of the NBA playoffs.

    Van Gundy has been working with Mike Breen and Mark Jackson on the Western Conference finals, and while I recall liking his work as a TV analyst when he was between coaching stints with the New York Knicks and Houston Rockets, I don't remember this level of candor. Or anger. Van Gundy, fired after Houston's first-round exit at the hands of the Utah Jazz, is peeved!

    In a good way.

    He has been railing against flopping, saying he'd like to see those who flop to get foul calls not just not rewarded but punished. We've discussed that around here, and it's problematic, but I like the way that man thinks.

    Monday night Manu Ginobili of the San Antonio Spurs and Jared Collins of the Jazz got locked up in a mutual flop that would have been comical if it weren't so annoying. It was a race to the floor. What happens when floppers meet? It's like a snake eating itself. Time and space warp. Or something.

    Enough of this, Van Gundy keeps saying. Play some damn defense. It doesn't sound like a radical idea out here in fanland, because that's how most fans think about flopping. Pretty much everybody hates it. But NBA insiders tend to think of it as an important strategy, or at least useful gamesmanship.

    For example, Doug Collins, who's doing the Eastern Conference finals on TNT with Marv Albert and Steve Kerr, will praise a player for being able to "create a foul," which is to say fall down spectacularly. Hey Ma, guess what I saw today! A guy fell down!

    Van Gundy has been taking it a step further than just knocking the floppers. He has been advocating that even legitimate charging fouls not be called. "Step into a guy's path so he runs into you, that's not playing defense," he said earlier in the playoffs. He'd like to see the rules changed to stop rewarding that style of play.

    I couldn't agree more. "Taking a charge" should not be a valued basketball skill. It cuts down on offense and increases stoppages in play. Both bad. Let's make defenders play defense.

    Van Gundy has gotten apoplectic about this at times, a what's this game coming to vibe dripping from him. And you kids get off my lawn! I don't know if he's mad about that kind of thing or about the Rockets firing him. Either way, it's fun to listen to.

    Another thing I like about Van Gundy is that he doesn't have much time for the self-deprecation schtick that's standard for sports broadcasters.

    Van Gundy and Jackson -- who played for Van Gundy three years ago, Jackson's last in the league -- have set up a cutting banter with each other, but while Van Gundy will sometimes crack a joke about his slight stature, he won't play along by saying he didn't know what he was doing as a coach and just got lucky in the good years by having good players yadda yadda.

    It's pretty clear he believes he knew just fine what he was doing once he got those good players, and it's refreshing. As far as I'm concerned, Bob Uecker can stay with the self-deprecating schtick. Everybody else, cut it out.

    Take Mark Jackson. He'll make jokes about his lack of ability. This guy was an NBA point guard for 17 years. He was Rookie of the Year and an All-Star, and he had more assists than anybody in history except John Stockton. Sure, that's because he hung around so long, but they don't just let you hang around for no reason.

    Overall, both teams, Breen-Van Gundy-Jackson and Albert-Kerr-Collins, are very good, with top-notch play-by-play guys alongside an analyst who's entertaining to listen to and solid or better on the X's and O's. Jackson and Collins are both a little third wheelish in the unnecessary three-man setup, but they're both OK and neither detracts.

    Now that I think of it, my fondness for certain announcers who are widely panned by people whose opinions often line up with mine -- I'm thinking here of Bill Walton and Joe Morgan -- may have a lot to do with the fact that neither indulges in Joe Garagiola-style self-mockery. Charles Barkley, another of my favorites, is not shy about discussing just how great he was.

    Great and good players don't talk nearly enough about being great and good players. They talk in platitudes about hard work or God, or they jokingly downplay their achievements in the service of laughs and false modesty.

    It's the broadcasting equivalent of taking a charge. It gets the job done, but enough of that. We need to hear more about what goes through a top player's mind in certain situations, less about, har har, I was just hoping all those years that nobody'd notice how bad I was.

    Van Gundy does have one thing to learn as an analyst, though. He has to remember to keep justifying his existence. Earlier in the playoffs, one of his broadcast partners was talking about one team's advantage over its opponent in experience.

    "I think sometimes experience is overrated," Van Gundy said. "It's how good you are."

    Hey, man, if you're going to say that one team beats the other because they're better, you're going to make people think there's no need for two analysts courtside and three more back in the studio. Ix-nay on the how good you are thing.
     
  2. TTRocket

    TTRocket Contributing Member

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    FIRE ADELMAN! :mad:
     
  3. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Somewhere, Shane Battier is crying after reading this... poor guy.
     
  4. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    JVG is a great analyst. He and Fratello both belong behind the mike.
     
  5. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I wish JVG would be the Rockets color man.

    LOL Imagine how awesome that would be.
     
  6. boomboom

    boomboom I GOT '99 PROBLEMS
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    I corrected your post. ;)
     
  7. buzz1701

    buzz1701 Contributing Member

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    While I agree that something should be done to curtail flopping, you can't just eliminate taking a charge. That's basketball 101. You'd have guards driving the lane and just crashing into stationary players, (defenders) and getting to the line, now that's not basketball.
     
  8. rockets > *

    rockets > * Member

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    I thought JVG was an advocate for the charge call :confused:
     
  9. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Contributing Member
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    i thought he was implying no foul be called at all.. :confused:

    jvg 4 Commish
     
  10. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    kerr really sucks. collins is far superior to him.

    van gundy is a great analyst, almost as good as he was a coach.
     
  11. Astockmarketgod

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    you should be able to take a charge without going to the ground... of course there are going to be the charges where your basically knocked to the ground

    but I think they are talking about the charge you take... which you embelish by going to the ground...without the sufficient force to have taken you there..

    it is irritating to watch... almost as much as a soccer player falling down...taking dives... hoping for a free kick or a yellow/red card...

    atleast in Hockey... they penalize a player with a 2 min unsportman like penalty....if they think he fakes a tripping or hooking...
     
  12. Astockmarketgod

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    opps I ment... you should be able to get a charging call without having to go to the ground... if the refs made more of those calls... we would have less flopping
     
  13. slowmustang

    slowmustang Member

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    I clearly remember that happening ONCE last year in Rockets games. Battier took a charge without falling down against Tyrus Thomas. I was astonished. :eek:
     
  14. ling ling

    ling ling Member

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    this is a flop.

    <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8ukde193ivM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8ukde193ivM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
     
  15. ling ling

    ling ling Member

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    this is bad acting.

    <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oUJW_8KzzZc"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oUJW_8KzzZc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
     
  16. TECH

    TECH Contributing Member

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    He'd get caught up in the moment, jump on the table, and holler out some sort of defensive instruction, waving arms frantically. :D
     
  17. TECH

    TECH Contributing Member

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    Good grief. I hate stuff like that.
     
  18. Hakeem06

    Hakeem06 Member

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    Excellent post. It was a terrific article.

    Even though there were some things about JVG that I absolutely hated, I always appreciated his candor and brutal honesty.

    Like the article said, there is SOOO much false modesty and political correctness out there it drives me insane. And, I'd say roughly 70% of the analysts on network (or regional) television don't analyze or give any honest insight into the game.

    Guys like JVG make me un-mute sports on TV. Bravo Jeff.
     
  19. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Search the building and find the sniper.
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    I don't mind standing in and taking a charge...that is good defense.

    All they need to do is call a foul or a technical foul on anyone flopping....I prefer a foul because a Tech will cost a team a point....

    In Fifa they give a yellow card.......which is a foul, the NBA should follow suit.

    DD
     

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