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For everyone who thinks Ming ain't getting enough touches

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by sol705, Dec 17, 2002.

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  1. sol705

    sol705 Member

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    Hey, look I know the man isn't getting as enough shots as most people think he should. The arguements are out there that its because the guards don't like to force it in to him when he's being guarded very well (particularly, Clips and Heat game), but cmon let's be realistic. Anyone who's wathced the NBA enough knows that rookies have to prove themselves, Yao Ming has only had a very good 2 or 3 weeks so far, not enough to carry a team in anyone's book. He has to earn the rep as the goto guy form playing a full season of basketball first. Anyone complaining about him getting the ball, have you ever played organized basketball with a team for a long time, and then some new kid joins the team, even if he's taller than everyone else and has good practices, don't mean that he gonna get all the looks automatically when the game rolls around. I'm a big Yao fan also, and a converted Rockets fan because of him, but you need to be more realistic, the game is about the team, not one person. Anyone who keeps crying about Yao not getting enough touches is being just as selfish as the Guards that they are complaining about. Let the season run its course first before we make the Yao Ming experiment a failure or success. Look at it this way, if Yao Ming hits the rookie wall, do you really want him to conisstently get the ball? An offense is built for the entire season (and tweaked a bit for NBA bonafied stars like Francis, Yao isn't there yet), maybe Rudy will change it next year, but for now if he makes teh opffense go through Yao primarily, whats gonan happen when he hits the Rookie wall? Not to mention, I need to stress again that no matter how unselfish I am on the court, when there's a new guy, I don't care who he is or what the coach tells me to do (unless he benches me) I'm giving up the rock to the guy I've played next to for the last 2 or 3 years. I don't care if his family is in the stands, thats my mindset, let em see you for a year and then we'll see what happens.
     
    #1 sol705, Dec 17, 2002
  2. superpro

    superpro Member

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    blah blah blah
     
    #2 superpro, Dec 17, 2002
  3. derrock

    derrock Contributing Member

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    Aaaahhhh....maybe Rudy should read your post!!

    I've seen and played bball sol705 and if the coach and players are worth anything, they'll want to win first and reward friendships later. By your logic, a stud freshman should not take the place of a senior in the starting lineup but it happens at all levels (including that of the Rockets). And if he does, he shouldn't get the ball, and that doesn't happen either:

    I don't know if you remember Tim Duncan's rookie year (the guy Yao is compared to when they talk about his impact)? In the playoffs, against Phoenix, it was Tim Duncan taking the last shots....not Robinson, not the little general... and he made those shots (over former rock Mark Bryant...fyi) and the team advanced. The Spurs put their hopes on the shoulders of a rookie and he came through. Fans here are not asking Yao to carry this team like Duncan did but just to enlarge his role more. We have him playing like Ben Wallace where all his baskets are putbacks and all he needs to do is play defense and rebound. Great if we were winning consistently but we're not and Yao's offensive game is 10X that of Ben Wallace. So why not have him take 10 shots a game???
     
    #3 derrock, Dec 17, 2002
  4. coonhunter

    coonhunter Member

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    bla bla, bla bla bla bla, they need a yawn smily face
     
    #4 coonhunter, Dec 17, 2002
  5. rocketfan83

    rocketfan83 Member

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    Yao is not getting shots b/c of 3 things
    1. He struggles to get inside positon w/ stronger players. Many times tonight Rockets attempted to get the ball but couldnt get positon with Grant guarding him
    2. He thinks pass first, he gets the ball and immediately looks for a open guy. Nice thing to do but he has to be more selfish when hes that talented
    3. Hes being double-teamed- and usually this means two things a assist my Yao or a Turnover by Yao.
    Rockets look to get the ball to Yao enough, he just cant get in position to recieve it. That is the bottomline and people that dont watch the game, cant see that.
    I like his role right now and I agree w/ your post. Let him gradually become the go-to guy not rush him into it, if hes not ready.
     
    #5 rocketfan83, Dec 17, 2002
  6. feishen

    feishen Member

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    This rockets team is deterioating many fans mentally. It's the 2nd stage for him right now.

     
    #6 feishen, Dec 17, 2002
  7. lancet

    lancet Contributing Member

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    Blah blah blah...

    The so-called best back-court in the NBA cannot figure out how to get the rock to a 7-6 center with very soft hands, very agile, and not even double-teamed yet most of the time? It looks like the Rockets guards need to go back to training camp and learn the basics. Shaq never had a problem of getting the ball. Malone never had the problem of getting the ball. Hakeem never had the problem of getting the ball... Big centers just don't have problem getting the ball.

    In the first half, 3 out of the 4 passed to Ming turned into TOs. Ming had 6 shot attempts in the entire game, with 4 of them came from his own offensive rebounds. The thought of the best FG% guy in your team only managed to get 2 shot attemps from his teammates is making me sick!

    :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
    #7 lancet, Dec 17, 2002
  8. sol705

    sol705 Member

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    derock, I just pointed out the HS basketball thing just to point out the mentality of some of the players. I think Francis is an extremely talented player as is Cat, but both have been very comfortable playing with each other, and I'm sure that has a lot to do with Ming not getting his touches sometimes. As for the Duncan thing, if I'm correct, the Spurs built their offense to go through the big men, because they didn't have any quality talent at the 1, 2, or 3. Rockets offense was built for Francis because they weren't sure about Yao's effectiveness, and because Francis was already proven. Besides Duncan became the goto guy in the playoffs after he had proved himself through a whole season, Yao hasn't yet. I agree that yes he should be taking more shots, but they'll worry more about his touches obnce he's done something for like a month or 2 in a row. Until then, people like Cat and Francis will always get more shots simply because they''ve been there before and they're more comfortable playing with each other, even if they realize that yao Ming is a superstar in the making.

    Oh and one more thing, everyone keeps talking about how easy it would be to lob it in there when a guy is being fronted, it's not that simple, when you're being constantly backed up by a strong guy in front of you and there's another person in back of you, your whole body is off balance and it's very hard to coordinate yourself to go up there and get the ball especially if you are missing the fast twitch muscles that Yao is missing (watch him on jumpballs, you'll notice he's kinda slow leaving his feet). I know he's 7'6" and with his reach can probably catch a pass at around 8.5-9.5 feet, but this is the NBA and people can jump that high VERY easily. They're bringing hoi along at a good pace, more shots would be good, but you have to go with what the defense gives you until you prove that you're a Shaq type player where you dictate how the defense plays you and not the other way around.
     
    #8 sol705, Dec 17, 2002
  9. sol705

    sol705 Member

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    Malone, Shaq and Hakeem were all players who had proven themselves, I'm sure in their rookie years, there were stretches where they didn't get the ball as much as they or their fans wanted, Yao is no exception.
     
    #9 sol705, Dec 17, 2002
  10. PumperX

    PumperX Contributing Member

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    sol705, if guards are not going to pass the ball to Yao, why not just trade him then. I am sure other teams will like your post very much.
     
    #10 PumperX, Dec 17, 2002
  11. rocketfan83

    rocketfan83 Member

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    Blah blah blah...

    The so-called best back-court in the NBA cannot figure out how to get the rock to a 7-6 center with very soft hands, very agile, and not even double-teamed yet most of the time? It looks like the Rockets guards need to go back to training camp and learn the basics. Shaq never had a problem of getting the ball. Malone never had the problem of getting the ball. Hakeem never had the problem of getting the ball... Big centers just don't have problem getting the ball.

    In the first half, 3 out of the 4 passed to Ming turned into TOs. Ming had 6 shot attempts in the entire game, with 4 of them came from his own offensive rebounds. The thought of the best FG% guy in your team only managed to get 2 shot attemps from his teammates is making me sick!


    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Soft hands, very agile. Yes and Yes. But strong does not describe Yao (atleast so far) . Shaq early on was so much stronger than his opponent. Yao is not, he is alot more skilled but not any stronger. and being strong is has alot to do with posting up. untill he can consistently get position he will struggle to get the ball thus struggle to get shots. And telling a all-star point guard and one of the best 2 guards in the league to learn the basics is not really the brightest statement i've seen on these boards. and relax the ROCKETS WON! :)
     
    #11 rocketfan83, Dec 17, 2002
  12. lancet

    lancet Contributing Member

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    The all-star point guard and the best back-court in the league looked pretty good when they don't have a 3rd scoring option. Now playing with the leagues 2nd best center, they are looking pretty stupid right now. They don't know/don't have the heart to play with a superb center. Read Clutch's recap if you don't agree with me.
     
    #12 lancet, Dec 17, 2002
  13. sol705

    sol705 Member

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    Have you ever played organized basketball before? Do you think it's that easy to incorporate a guy into the team? No matter what the coach tells you, human nature will take over when reaction time is limited. Rudy and every other good coach in the NBA understands that. Think of what happens when you get a new girlfriend, she's hot and you know she loves you because she's shown already that she does, but are you gonna tell her everything about yourself instantly? No, because you need time to get comfortable with someone, regardless of all the good tihngs that they show you. You would go out drinking with your buddies in the early stages of your relationship more often than you would once you've moved past the 6 month mark with her.
     
    #13 sol705, Dec 17, 2002
  14. WasabiTheNinjaPimp

    WasabiTheNinjaPimp Contributing Member

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    wow, the original post in this thread is maybe the stupidest post ever. glad to see that making the new guy "learn his place" on the team is more important than wins, or even listening to the coach.

    it reads like a troll.
     
    #14 WasabiTheNinjaPimp, Dec 17, 2002
  15. Gutter Snipe

    Gutter Snipe Contributing Member

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    Actually if you listened to Rudy's interview last week on 610, you would have learned that the Rockets worked hour after hour working on how to get the ball into the post for Hakeem. They practiced angles, different passes, etc etc. Remember when Hakeem claimed the Rockets didn't know how to use big men? Rudy said it was very gratifying when Hakeem came back from Toronto and told him "Coach, they don't do it like you do". Hakeem finally realized how good he had it in Houston for those years.

    The Rockets will slowly work Yao into the mix, and they will also work plays off of the mismatches created by the way teams try to deny Yao the ball. Have patience and give it time.
     
    #15 Gutter Snipe, Dec 17, 2002
  16. derrock

    derrock Contributing Member

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    sol705,

    The problem with the Rox has been their complete 180 degree turn with Yao when it comes to his offense. Against SA-NO-PHI-SAC, the Rockets often started the offense inside-out. THe fact that they did this proves that Rudy could adjust his offense back to the old days (when Hakeem played) and the team could have success with it. But against Mem-LAC-Mia, the Rockets go back to the ISOs that infuriates so many in the forum. We have seen the light and all we ask is for a happy medium right now. No one wants to see Yao hit the wall at full speed but you saw the effort he puts out there on the floor. If he's not starting the offense, he's gonna try and end it with a board and putback. The man gives 110% out there and the best way to prevent him from fatigue is to limit his minutes (30 minutes a night in my book).

    The problem with the lobbing the basketball thing is not the fact that we can't get it to Yao but that we don't swing the ball. Instead, we jack up the shot. Swinging the ball either gets someone an open shot (if Yao is being doubled) or it gives Yao a chance to post on the other box.

    The Rox are lucky that they have go-to players like Stevie and Cat and a pretty good sub so that Yao doesn't have to do everything. But when he's on the floor, he can do so much...so lets at least give him the chance to show that he can be a go-to player like Duncan.
     
    #16 derrock, Dec 17, 2002
  17. sol705

    sol705 Member

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    Well Iw ill say that the spacing during the Mem-LAC-Mia games have been kinda weird to me. I noticed that during their previous 5 games, Yao had more space to work with, since he was isolated one on one because of the play called. However the last three games, I noticed whenever he gets the ball oir is setting up for posiytion, the spacing looks like something out of the Triangle with the 2 Guards about 10 to 15 feet away form him and his defender
     
    #17 sol705, Dec 17, 2002
  18. Jonhty

    Jonhty Member

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    I feel a lot better after reading your post.
    it convinces me a bit more that Yao has the right coach and is in the right team.
     
    #18 Jonhty, Dec 17, 2002
  19. lancet

    lancet Contributing Member

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    Exactly. Rudy knows how to get the ball to the big man. For God's sake, Hakeem played in Houston for 17 seasons. The team need to practice on how to get the ball to the big man. I mean practice big time, basic training camp stuff. It's was horrifying to watch 3 out of 4 passes to Ming in the first half turned into TOs. After that, the Rockets just gave up passing the ball to Ming, with just a little resistence from Grant. Is Grant even a good defensive player?
     
    #19 lancet, Dec 17, 2002
  20. SageHare6

    SageHare6 Member

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    Lancet... Trust in the Rudy. He's gonna make a monster out of Yao.

    Right now, I think there's still three areas are Rox are learning.
    1. "timing" issues with passing
    2. "positioning" issues with posting
    3. "spacing" issues in half-court sets

    For ad hoc playing, I'm actually very impressed with how Yao and SF are connecting on the court. "Post positioning" I think could use some more work. While some people may disagree with me about why Yao has trouble establishing the post, IMO, it has to do with the 3 second violation rules and Yao's general "lack" of comfort with having his back to the hoop. The former issue I think can be remedied once we get the "timing" issues resolved. The sharper and crisper the passes into the post, the better and easier it will be for Yao to maximize his 3 seconds. Moreover, if you notice, the ball is often on the "weak" side of the court when Yao actually succeeds in establishing position. Something is wrong here. Hopefully we'll see the Rox set up quicker in the half-court.

    Lastly, as to spacing, here again... Yao's size is a curse and a blessing. I honestly think the guards are still getting used to driving, offenseively, with the big guy down there. Do you pass to him? Do you shoot? Why all the big bodies? It's a lot more congested down low than in previous years b/c of Yao.. and that is something I think will take some time to get used to. Yao will eventually learn how to get good position AND good spacing for the guards. We've seen some snippets of it already, and it's a thing of beauty when Yao is ready to follow up misses with dunks.

    :p :p :p

    theSAGE
     
    #20 SageHare6, Dec 17, 2002
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