[FEDERALIST] If We’re Going To Have A Racial Double Standard It Should Be About Black Americans Only

Why should Jews or Asians be punished for other ethniv group’s self inflicted wounds?

 

How can the government change parenting?

You are seeking to change variables that are free rights while saying we should ignore variables that can be changed.

Because, if you understood how genetics work, being born poor doesn't mean having low IQ...it means being born poor.

 

Not when you see their graduation rates at elite schools.

Your numbers support nothing other than the fact that elite schools don't weigh test scores the way you think they do.

Your entire argument on this has been "Student A scored Higher on this test than Student B, thus Student A should have went in over Student B," and this, quite simply, just isn't how admissions work. They are subjective and change from school to school.

Maybe if you can find that black and hispanic students weren't cutting it at these schools you'd have something, since that isn't the case, then one must assume that these schools are correctly picking their students.

 

Colleges have ALWAYS had personality tests, I'm not sure why you people think this has changed.

Artificially decrease? It's the highest it's ever been. Can someone actually prove that someone was discriminated against in college admissions because they were asian or white? I've yet to see the actual proof of this.

Again.

I don't know how many times it has to be said...admissions are not just about test scores and numbers.

There have always been personality tests, that's why, if you are in high school, they tell you to do community work, get a job, etc etc...seem like you are someone that has a passion for something and not just someone that can ace a test given to you. Prove that you can work with others and that you have a drive to you.

You and your ilk need to prove that black students are getting in over others, not only that, that they don't deserve to be there...you need to prove this while not seeming like an actual racist that is complaining about an elite school having a 7% black demographic that you seem to think should be lower... Good luck.

 

Okay, I'll play. Where does toxic masculinity, lack of stable male figures, and cultural attitudes come from? What is the derivation of these ignorant values?

 

I have no idea how Asians are being punished when it comes to college admissions.

I guess, if you think that having to go to Stanford instead of Yale is 'punishment'

Again, what are you people even basing this on? I thought the Texas case would shut down this argument, it's still people whining about how they didn't get to go to the specific school they wanted to go to and this is actual oppression to them.

It would be like again...if an elite high school PG was passed on by the Tarheels and had to choose Kentucky as a back up option. Boo f'n hoo.

As I mentioned before, in this comparison, having better stats doesn't mean you are the better player...having better test scores doesn't make you the better student...and this is where the subjective nature of college admissions comes in.

 

I don't think it takes a particularly intelligent person to understand that a stable household with involved parents is preferable for children and is a significant variable in their education. The problem is that in modern society that will not be the case for a significant number of children and since we are a society where we try to govern and make the best society possible, how do we meaningfully address that problem without platitudes and nonsense. What's sad is that you want to claim what's preferable but then not do anything about the problem, leaving all of those children to fail because they don't have the support. Much the same thing you all do with abortion. You want to save all the fetuses, you just don't want to do anything to help the babies and their mothers after the birth. You don't want to have sex education, you don't want to have easy access to contraception to prevent the pregnancies in the first place. You just want to pretend we live in the 1820's.

 

Of course this is your response, since it's Asians who are being discriminated against and black people who benefit, you support it because you aren't actually against racial discrimination, you just want to ensure that it benefits the "right" people. It's transparent. There's literally no chance this would be your take if it were Asians benefiting from arbitrary "personality tests" that always led to more qualified black students being passed over for less qualified Asian students.

You say prove it, but we know that the average GPA of an admitted Asian student HAS to be higher than that of a black, Hispanic, or even white student. Studies have shown that an Black students with SAT scores 450 points lower than Asian students have an equal chance of being admitted. Hell the white student that scored 140 points lower on the SAT has an equal chance to the Asian student when it comes to being admitted.

Black college enrollment has steadily increased while black SAT and ACT scores have steadily decreased, this is what happens when you let people with the goal of equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity be in charge.

I understand that you like the outcome, but supporting racial discrimination is a bad look.

 

White students who score lower on SAT/ACT also get in over other white students who scored higher. That is because there is more to the criteria than just scores and grades.

 

That can happen, sure, but let's say for instance that Harvard was letting in white and Asian students with inferior academic qualifications compared to black applicants and a "personality test" was pointed to as the reason why black students on average needed to score 450 points higher on their SAT just to have an equal chance to be admitted.....what would be said about that? Would we just say, hey man, they should have done better on the personality test? Of course not. When a "personality test" can override academic achievement and it consistently harms certain demographics and consistently benefits others.....how can that be defended?

 

I think one way would be to look and see if their admission policies produced a high graduation rate for the black applicants that were accepted.

 

Again, you are operating on a different level than these colleges, 'Merit' to them is subjective. Period.



So, I will ignore the rest of your posts until you bring me something more than your rambling on about discrimination with 0 proof and strawmen about how I "Like the decision"

I'm merely telling you how things work and you are denying facts because they don't line up with your narrative, that I can tell is a narrative that you are just parroting.

Facts

• College admissions are not solely based on GPAs
• College admissions are not solely based on any one test or a combination of tests
• College admissions are subjective to the school
• There is a limited amount of spots at elite colleges

Also, that you need to prove that the kids getting into these colleges...you know...the ones that you are saying are getting in because of low test scores...don't belong in those colleges...graduation rates are better for blacks at schools like Harvard and Stanford than anywhere else in the country. So it looks like whatever they are doing, they are doing correctly.

Since Harvard is the school in question when it comes to Asians we must recognize that blacks graduate at Harvard at 93% and Hispanics 94% but these numbers do fluctuate, it was once 97%, either way, it's still very high.

Well Bobby, it's not a literal personality test.

It's that each individual is graded on their personality.

This is why if you are a high school student, getting in trouble with the law can be a knock against you, because it may reveal to a university that you are a troublemaker...

So yes, a student that didn't score as well on a test...but grinds out in a poor area, stayed out of trouble, maybe even supported their family by working a job on the side ALONG with excelling in school, along with doing some extracurricular work...will probably get into Harvard over someone that just aced a few tests and did nothing else...the former kid shows that they are a hardworker who probably was just held back in a poor area while the other just did well on a test...and guess what? Everyone that goes to these schools does well on a test.

Even so, that kid that aced a few tests is still going to get into an elite school. May not be the exact school they wanted to go to...but I thought conservatives were all about bootstraps and all...I guess some see this as oppression, interesting.

Any ways, if you have any cases of discrimination to actually change my mind on the subject then please produce. I'm not going to get into a long back and fourth of you just saying the same thing over and over again while ignoring facts and data.

 

I don't think that's relevant at all. If you are turning away better students on the basis of their race or ethnicity, it doesn't matter if the inferior student that you accepted graduated or not. I find it odd that I have to point out in 2018 that discrimination on the basis of race or ethnicity is wrong.....yes, even if black people benefit from it.

If I refuse to hire a better qualified black man as a firefighter, does it matter that the less qualified white man I hired instead still did a good job putting out fires? Of course it doesn't.

Seeing the world through a conflict theory lens is AIDS.

 

Of course you will ignore them, because you support this racial discrimination. As such, you've killed any credibility when it comes to the subject of racial discrimination.

You either support equality and meritocracy, or you support racism and discrimination. You clearly support racism and discrimination if certain groups benefit from it. It's no big deal, I'm sure you aren't the only racist in the D&D.

 

Honestly, this is all that I should have said. It destroys the argument completely but realize that the opponent has continued with 0 substance.

Just more namecalling, strawmen, and insults, as per usual.

 

I agree involved parents are a very important variable. The question is how do you suggest we replicate that through the schools? Throwing money at it hasn't worked. There is no way any school or government program can replicate the advantage provided by a stable highly involved household.

The biggest problem is the government has replaced the father in way too many households which dis-proportionally effects black communities. The best thing we could do would be to stop subsidizing the behavior that automatically places children at a disadvantage. When you subsidize something it encourages it. This sets the kids up for failure and more often than not dooms them to repeat the cycle.

I have never been against contraception or sex education. I think they are very good but sex ed should be limited to teaching about sex and the consequences.

 

What's actually sad is I've defended you when others called you racist but since you just won't admit the simple facts I've given you, you go to this.

It's expected, usually when one too prideful loses an argument they drop to namecalling and such all while ignoring every point you've made because they know they don't have the ammo to actually counter your points.

 

I've literally never supported racism.....so when people have called me racist, there was no basis for it. This is an instance where you are literally supporting racial discrimination because you like the outcome. You can lie about it all you want, but if things were reversed and black people with superior academic achievements were being denied entry to college in favor of Asian or white students with inferior academic achievements based on a "personality test", you'd be against it and you'd call it what it is and I'd agree with you that it was something that is simply unacceptable in 2018.

While it is true that a white student with slightly inferior academic achievements could be admitted over another white student with superior academic achievements based on the "personality test", that is the exception, it's not something that is as consistent as the racial divide has been. Black students nearly always benefit from the "personality test" and they benefit far more than anyone else and Asian students nearly always suffer from the "personality test" and they suffer far more than anyone else. This isn't the exception, this is how it is set up.

I would have accepted it more if you just admitted that you don't care that it is discriminatory and that you thought diversity was more important than equality rather than pretending that the discrimination actually was equality.

 

If someone wants to go to Stanford and the only thing holding them back is some immutable characteristic, then we call that discrimination.

Must we be lectured on Asian and Jewish privilege, rather than seek out those aspects of each culture that make them so successful? After all, diversity is our strength.

 

What is the outcome exactly that I like? Blacks are 7% at Harvard, you guys act like it has a 40% black demographic or something.

To be certain, I'm not arguing that their 7% number is too high or too low, YOU ARE though. You are saying that they admitted too many in comparison to whites and asians.

This is essentially your argument.

They aren't being denied entry into college? What are you actually talking about here?

Proof?

Either way, shouldn't your argument be against holistic review?

It quite simply isn't discrimination. You need to actually prove that people aren't going to a school because of their race. I've yet to see proof, all you've done is throw out talking points, no data, and call me a racist as a bonus.

I think you automatically assuming that black students are inferior is very racist and that too many of them get into elite universities is also very racist. It seems to be the opinion you are holding though since you claim that inferior students are getting in over superior students.

My question is...how do you know the student that got in and graduated was superior or inferior to the student that did not?

Also...In fact, I've never once seen you call out anti-black racism. You always excuse it. According to you, racism only happens to white people and the only reason you or anyone else is bringing up Asians is to use it. Like the Scalia quote I bring up, you ALWAYS immediately ignore it instead of calling it racist, you just can't bring yourself to call out that we possibly had a racist SCOTUS judge for all this time, a guy that thought blacks shouldn't go to elite schools and should be on a slower track...

It's funny how you then ignored my tweet from the NCAPA, a coalition of 34 organizations representing Asian Americans, also disagreed with this argument that you've thrown up in this thread, I guess they are all racist too.