[Fact Checker] MDA made Nash ignore midrange

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by heypartner, Oct 12, 2017.

?

Did MDA make Nash ignore midragne

  1. Definitely Wrong

    14 vote(s)
    56.0%
  2. Mostly Wrong

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  3. Statement is as much True as False

    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  4. Mostly Right

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  5. Definitely Right

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    48,202
    Likes Received:
    15,277
    Remember last year when we compared everything to Nash and MDA? That was fun. Let's do this again.

    Since Paul is a HOF Pure PG like Nash, and is the #1 PG at using the midrange game, let's see if OTMax's statement is true about Nash w/MDA.

    Here's the data -- the left columns are % of FGA taken vs other shots. the right cols are FG% of each range.

    Steve Nash with MDA (first two years MVP).

    Steve Nash..% of% of% of% of% of% ofFG%FG%FG%FG%FG%FG%
    SeasonAgeDist.2P0-33-1010-1616-arc3P2P0-33-1010-1616-arc3P
    2004-053014.6.746.201.083.180.282.254.526.605.465.461.529.431
    2005-063115.0.676.233.092.110.241.324.548.703.454.457.475.439
    2006-073215.1.647.226.085.146.189.353.575.676.554.500.522.455
    2007-083317.2.604.140.071.153.240.396.527.607.382.517.528.470
    Career.14.8.702.202.112.158.231.298.524.650.446.478.484.432

    Chris Paul..% of% of% of% of% of% ofFG%FG%FG%FG%FG%FG%
    SeasonAgeDist.2P0-33-1010-1616-arc3P2P0-33-1010-1616-arc3P
    2013-142815.0.756.125.153.255.222.244.498.706.481.459.440.368
    2014-152916.3.702.093.107.229.265.298.523.642.488.519.487.398
    2015-163015.8.705.121.121.184.278.295.501.615.504.527.432.371
    2016-173118.1.615.074.070.210.261.385.518.603.564.497.498.411
    Career.14.1.768.184.160.175.248.232.504.609.490.475.454.370
     
    #1 heypartner, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    BigMaloe likes this.
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    33,051
    Likes Received:
    519
    But he made Harden ignore it.

    (i like mda lt) j/k
     
  3. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    12,126
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    Nash lived on mid range shots, I remember him shooting a lot of those on pick and rolls with Stat, Harden and Chris Paul should be able to do the same since they like to crowd the lane when they defend us now a days
     
    don grahamleone likes this.
  4. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    14,128
    Likes Received:
    1,482
    % of 2 is .756
    % of 3 is .254

    That's an amazing midrange percentage. Yeah let's take that away.
     
    Pen15clubber likes this.
  5. bongman

    bongman Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    495
    Perception.... meet reality
     
  6. thething

    thething Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,506
    Likes Received:
    116
    That was before shooting this many threes was sexy.
     
  7. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    10,175
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    too bad thats not the actual % of makes
     
  8. DonKnock

    DonKnock Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,759
    Likes Received:
    6,369
    That's the percent of shots, not the percentage he shot on those aforementioned shots:)
     
    Drogba, joshuaao and BigMaloe like this.
  9. knote32

    knote32 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    19,585
    Likes Received:
    3,232
    I think CP3 is evolving. I'd like to see him shooting 10 threes a game. And 20 shots total.

    He is a far more talented scorer than even he gives himself credit for.
     
    BigMaloe likes this.
  10. Pen15clubber

    Pen15clubber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    10,808
    Likes Received:
    10,596
    O look it's the guy with made up %s and tiny muscles
     
    knote32 and BigMaloe like this.
  11. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    4,332
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    People on here actually think that MDA made Nash ignore the midrange? Lol, smh.
     
    BigMaloe likes this.
  12. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    48,202
    Likes Received:
    15,277
    For those voting for "As much True as False," what is true and false about the statement?

    Or are you a pollster who now believes there are no longer anymore absolute truths or falsehoods ... but always alternative facts in there somewhere. So you now always vote for Equal Truth and Falsehood to everything.

    @SamFisher -- is this another sign of the Fake News campaign winning?
     
    BigMaloe, DonKnock and ico4498 like this.
  13. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,854
    Likes Received:
    1,721
    Heyparter is picking up the slack left behind from FTW's departure .
     
    Drogba, knote32, Pen15clubber and 2 others like this.
  14. RockWest

    RockWest Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    615
    Suns GM was not Morey right?
     
  15. OTMax

    OTMax Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    6,366
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Not sure what this proves. His offense is not the same it once was, Morey was not their GM, threes were not as crazy as now.
     
  16. napalm_black

    napalm_black Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    13,688
    Likes Received:
    3,444
    OOPS. ;)

    If I'm reading the chart correctly, it's like this:
    Nash takes 2-pointers 70.2% of the time, versus 3s. His FG% is 52.5% on 2's (1.048 points-per-shot), and .432 on 3's (1.296 points per shot).
    Paul takes 2-pointers 76.8% of the time (even more). His FG% is 50.4% on 2's (1.008 points-per-shot) and 37.0% on 3's (1.11 points per shot).

    Nash's shooting numbers are pretty incredible. In his case, he'd rack up an extra quarter of a point for every 2-point attempt that he converted to a good 3 point attempt.

    However, I also think these numbers DO underline that fact that these guys need to take certain 2-point shots when they're available. Any-time you're north of 1 point-per-shot, it's a 'decent' shot.

    There is some conflating going on here when people mash Morey & MDA together.
    MDA ball was push the tempo and take the best quick shot.
    Moreyball is 3's and layups.

    Generally speaking, Harden plays Moreyball, not MDAball. Paul brings more of an MBAball element. One of the reasons it's exciting to have both.
     
    cheke64 likes this.
  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    18,113
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    I recall MDAs Suns offense as the 7 seconds or less offense.
    Yes, for their time, they upped the 3 point count.
    But it was less about where the shots were coming from and more about pace.

    It's DM's analytics that have led to the no mid-range offense.

    Then combined, in 2016+, it has led to the no midrange, high pace offense we saw last year.

    Does that mean MDA will force CP3 to take away his mid range?

    Not necessarily... but I think just a bit by osmosis of culture, we will see that. Seems like we are seeing that a bit this pre-season.
    Not sure it matters, though.

    Don't want to ignore offense, as it certainly bogged down against the Spurs AT TIMES in the playoffs last year, but offensively I don't care if CP3 adjusts and takes 0 mid range shots, or take more mid range shots. He's a great, efficient scorer. I trust him to take efficient shots in any case.

    I value CP3 defensively way more than offensively. PBev was good defensively in a very spastic way that didn't permeate the team. CP3 is good defensively in a more coherent way, IMO, that hopefulyl translates to better team defense.
     
    BigMaloe likes this.
  18. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    48,202
    Likes Received:
    15,277
    1. PHO went from 16th in 3FA to #1 in both of Nash's first two seasons.
    2. MDA's offense was similar enough to have just as many PnRs back then as now ... which allows the midrange shot by the PG (see Paul at LAC and Parker at SAS)
    3. Paul didn't shoot more % of midrange with LAC than Nash, yet LAC shot more 3s than Nash's team.
    Did MDA tell Nash to ignore his midrange game?

    You are insinuating that MDA is "messing with Paul's head." Do you see evidence that MDA told Nash to ignore is midrange game?
     
    #18 heypartner, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    BigMaloe likes this.
  19. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    18,113
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Why'd you include it as an option then?
    You also included the qualifiers Definitely and Mostly?

    Sounds like you want to redo the poll so that the answers are either Yes or No.

    To me, what's true about it is that MDA preached a high pace often that often resulted in more, better open shots at the 3 or rim.
    To me, what's false about it is that I don't believe MDA preached or encouraged Nash to take fewer mid-range shots.
     
    Mathrocker likes this.
  20. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    48,202
    Likes Received:
    15,277
    No ... why do you think that? I'm asking for discussion of that selection, which you provided, thx.

    Didn't you hear MDA preach 6 seconds or less for this year, giving the data (from last year) for when we shoot in under 6 seconds and when we shoot under 12 seconds, both being outstanding. I can find that quote, if you want.

    Also, Paul didn't shoot more % of midrange with LAC than Nash, yet the team shot more 3s that Nash's team.
     
    BigMaloe likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page