Ezekiel Elliott suspended six games

Discussion in 'Football: NFL, College, High School' started by J.R., Aug 11, 2017 at 12:44 PM.

  1. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    Every time it pops up I'm like "Not today ISIS, not today"
     
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  2. conquistador#11

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    if you're cowboy fan or the owner you should applaud this suspension for the long run. Maybe zeke will get humbled and start acting less childishly.
    the suspension worked well for big ben, he even settled down.
     
  3. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    You posted evidence showing that there isn't enough to convict him in a court of law. You seem to be missing that the league has higher standards than that, due to public relations. They don't believe him, and that's all they need to suspend per the CBA. The evidence is whatever they looked at to convince them that he did it, and that doesn't have to be on the level of evidence to lock him up. The league could literally decide "they have photos and women may believe her, so let's suspend him to be safe", and they have the right to do so. You believe the texts over the pictures, for example. The league has gone through all that and don't believe Zeke.

    The league doesn't care about court of law guilty. They are concerned with court of public opinion guilty.
     
    #43 Icehouse, Aug 12, 2017 at 4:14 AM
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017 at 4:23 AM
  4. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    What I hear the NFL saying is the burden of proof is on Zeke to prove he is not guilty and he did not do that. The NFL appears to be doing exactly the opposite of how our judicial system works...assumed guilty first and must prove innocence. No one in their right minds could possibly consider the photos persuasive evidence if she was busted in texts and by witness testimony of trying to set Zeke up to ruin his NFL career. It almost feels like Zeke should have just made up some physical evidence of his own...so he would have "persuasive evidence" to present. I don't think the NFL is actually considering if the evidence is false or not...just that it exists. A woman with a camera can be a dangerous thing if she wants to perpetuate a story about "he abused me" absent of witnesses. There is just no way he would ever be convicted in a court of law given she was busted for trying to set him up through her own texts and testimony of her friends and other witnesses. But, this is the NFL's courtroom. I don't think the NFL cares if Zeke is guilty or not. They are just associating him to this mess she created to ruin him and then Zeke provided extra fuel with the St. Patrick's Day incident to establish a "pattern of behavior". But, most of the pattern is coming from someone who is out to get him and has very questionable behavior of her own here. If she was really abused by Zeke, then she would have no need to try to set him up. The fact is no one saw Zeke do any physical violence to her...so it is all circumstantial evidence. You either buy it or you don't. Imagine being accused of all this and going in there to give your testimony...and they expect you to present persuasive evidence of your own to counter all the bs she threw at them. No one could possibly win that. Zeke wasn't trying to set her up and collect evidence against her trying to ruin her. The NFL wants Zeke to give evidence where her bruises came from and, if he can't, then he must have done it. Just where would he get that evidence from? Where would any of us get that evidence from?

    In the end, I don't care if Zeke is suspended or not. The Cowboys have an adequate running back corp to handle his absence. This will hurt the team but not much. It will hurt Zeke's reputation, stat line, and finances more.

    Zeke will forever now be known as a domestic violence guy even though he wasn't convicted of anything....simply by the fact the NFL made their own decision that he did it. But, the burden of proof here appears to be very, very low. I think this is more about the NFL protecting their image of being tough on domestic violence in the eyes of everyone. If they didn't suspend him, then they would be accused of ignoring domestic violence issues like this and perpetuating the cycle. It is their opinion that he is guilty based on the trumped up evidence. Apparently, things like whether she can be established as a liar and wanting to ruin his career isn't a factor in dismissing some of this key evidence. It's just that it exists and, therefore, it must point to the likelihood that she would never make up lies about where the bruises came from and take photos of them to present. And, I don't know what the hell is going on with "the bruises are old" bs. If the bruises are old and not for the week in question, then how are they even relevant? Without the photos, what do they have that is persuasive?

    If Zeke is guilty, then I would want to see him in prison regardless of the NFL. The police couldn't prove it but the NFL did in their own eyes...because they are not requiring much burden of proof compared to a court of law. That's where it really gets into unfair territory...because the NFL is situated to side with the victim first regardless. I guess that is why the NFLPA exists.
     
    #44 Surfguy, Aug 12, 2017 at 9:47 AM
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017 at 9:54 AM
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  5. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    I don't have a problem with the punishment handed down by the NFL. I don't know exactly what their investigation uncovered, so it's hard for me to be unhappy with it.

    It does appear that maybe the standard of proof the NFL is using is similar to what we see in a civil case as opposed to a criminal case. I think the NFL thinks the preponderance of the evidence points to Elliott doing something that the NFL can't tolerate.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    To be clear, this is the logic you are arguing against:

    1. Guy is black.
    2. Authority (police, NFL, whomever) say he's guilty of something
    3. He's not someone I like (a Texan, a Rocket, a GOPer, etc).

    Thus, obviously, he is guilty. Anyone who says otherwise is a homer/stupid/etc.

    Any argument that doesn't counter at least one of the above 3 core statements is not really relevant to the person you're debating. This general structure applies to any law-related discussion, whether it be sports or not. For example, if you could show that Elliot is, in fact, white (or a Texan), you may be able to change his mind. Otherwise, you're SOL.
     
  7. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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  8. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    I posted proof that Tiffany was actively lying and trying to set him up by getting other people to lie for her. I also posted sworn affidavits from witnesses testifying that Tiffany got into a fight at 2am in the morning of July 22nd which certainly proves she most likely got the bruises by someone else.

    Zeke never had to defend himself in a court of law because there wasn't credible evidence. The evidence didn't change, just the agenda of the people reviewing it.
     
  9. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Your post is anything but clear to me.

    1. Nothing about my post implies anything about race and I will not entertain a conversation about that.
    2. I happen to agree with the legal authority that claims there is no credible evidence that warrants so much as bringing him up on charges.
    3. I'm not partizan to any political party, I don't like the Texans and I love the Rockets.

    Are you saying he is obviously guilty or implying that is my intent? I'm not sure but I certainly do not think he is guilty.

    I'm not look for an argument to counter any of those core statements. I'm looking for someone to provide evidence that counters the evidence that Tiffany lied and tried to get others to lie for her as well as the sworn affidavits that appear to clear Zeke of the wrong he is being accused of.

    The NFL issued a 6 page letter with claims of evidence but they haven't made any of it public. I've seen very compelling evidence supporting Zeke's innocence but none that supports his guilt. Until I see evidence to support Zeke's guilt I'm considering the NFL's decision to be nothing more than than a decision based on the agenda of a Tyrant.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Major

    Major Member

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    Sorry, to clarify - I was referring to the person you were arguing with. You're banging your head against a wall unless you can convince him that Elliot is white or a Texan.
     
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  11. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Gotcha.
     
  12. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    And you don't know what else the NFL has looked at aside from or related to those documents, or if they feel like those are doctored, witnesses paid off, etc. They investigated for over a year. THEY DON'T BELIEVE HIM. That's all that is needed to suspend him under this CBA. Public relations, not law.
     
  13. Buck Turgidson

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    17 suspensions in 3 years...not counting the 3 guys in the hopper....
     
  14. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    No one is arguing what Roger Goodell has the contractural right to do. It doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean he doesn't have an agenda which he clearly does.

    Your basing your assumptions of off....well nothing because the NFL has yet to present any evidence. I'm guessing you think the tweets by Tiffany were somehow doctored as well? That would be one hell of a trick don't you think?
     
  15. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    It leads one to believe the NFL has something against the Cowboys.
     
  16. Buck Turgidson

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    HAHAHAHA...etc.......That's ****ing ludicrously comical.

    Yes, the NFL hates the Dallas Cowboys. Sure.

    ****ing idiot Dallas fans.
     
  17. CCorn

    CCorn Contributing Member

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  18. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member

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    It amazes me how people assume he is innocent, just because he wasn't arrested by authorities. Do you really think college and pro athletes and celebrities get the same treatment as someone who isn't? Just because he wasn't arrested doesn't mean he isn't someone with a problem, and it certainly doesn't mean he is innocent. I feel sorry for anyone who has to prove abuse, because it isn't easy to do. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.
     
  19. PhiSlammaJamma

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    First thing, there is evidence she lied. That ends it for me. The only reason to lie to the authorities is that she is covering up something in her own life or she's setting up Zeke. He may have done it, but when you lie about what happened, now you've amped up the stakes falsely and ruined your credibility on all accounts. It's impossible to believe her, to convict him, or other.

    Second, the NFL has messed up so bad in the past it could literally do nothing else. If photos or video come out they look like assess and hypocritical. It's classic. They either under or over-react to whatever happened last in the media. But they never seem to make a decision using the evidence, law or following through on an actual NFL policy. It's like Jeff Fisher boot camp for starting a QB. But NFL headquarters will burn evidence of the Patriots cheating... something not even Nixon would dare do. They can't seem to get it right.
     
  20. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...owboys-officially-appeals-six-game-suspension

    A hearing now must be scheduled within 10 days. The NFL announced the suspension last Friday after a 13-month investigation.

    His appeal will focus on testimony given by his former girlfriend to the NFL, according to documents obtained by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

    Elliott will argue, according to the documents, that his ex-girlfriend, Tiffany Thompson, made multiple threats to "ruin his career." The appeal also will highlight text messages from Thompson that encouraged a friend to lie to police about an alleged domestic assault in July 2016.

    The Columbus (Ohio) City Attorney's office announced in September that it would not pursue charges against Elliott because of "conflicting and inconsistent information," but the NFL can penalize a player even without legal charges.
     
    #60 J.R., Aug 15, 2017 at 4:27 PM
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017 at 5:32 PM
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