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Extremist tea partiers want to overturn 17th amendment so rich white men can rule america

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by da1, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. da1

    da1 Member

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    Talk of repealing 17th Amendment invades lieutenant governor race

    By David Saleh Rauf

    October 17, 2013

    AUSTIN - Should voters be able choose their U.S. senators?

    Ask Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst or Sen. Dan Patrick and the answer is a resounding "No."

    The two Republicans - both vying for the lieutenant governor seat - recently voiced support to strip voters of the ability to elect U.S. senators and hand over that power back to state lawmakers. It would require repealing the 17th Amendment, which for the last 100 years has provided for the direct election of senators by voters.

    Dewhurst and Patrick this month said a repeal is warranted to temper the federal government's influence and because senators in Washington are out of touch with their state legislatures.

    Even though there is no realistic chance of Congress taking action to repeal the power of the people to elect senators, the topic has become somewhat of a litmus test for tea party supporters the last couple years; a number of Republicans across the country - including Gov. Rick Perry and U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz - have endorsed the notion.

    The repeal rhetoric has seeped into an already heated lieutenant governor's campaign, where all four candidates are dueling to win over the most conservative part of the state's Republican base.

    "If you look at the lieutenant governor's race, this fits perfectly into the narrative because it's been all about the drive to win the most conservative members of the Republican primary electorate," said Mark Jones, a Rice University political science professor. "The 17th Amendment reform has been a rallying point in the tea party movement for the past few years, but it's pure symbolic politics because there is no possibility whatsoever we're going to repeal the 17th Amendment."

    The U.S. Constitution originally sought to buttress state power by allowing legislatures to pick senators. The idea gave way to a culture of corruption, with allegations of special interests bribing lawmakers for senate appointments.
    Ratified in 1913, the 17th Amendment was tailored to end backroom deals and cronyism.

    Stronger states

    Dewhurst and Patrick, however, say the amendment has helped spawn an out-of-control federal government.

    "Gross overreaches of the federal government, like Obamacare, would never have seen the light of day if the states were still represented strongly in Congress through the Senate as it was originally envisioned," Patrick said.

    Asked at a Houston-area debate if he supports repealing the amendment, Dewhurst did not hesitate.

    "You betcha, kemo- sabe," Dewhurst replied. "Right now many members of Congress, United States senators and United States congressmen don't have a feeling for what the states need."

    While a repeal may seem logical to some in the Republican Party, the idea is "antiquated and stopped making sense the latter part of the 19th century and the early part of the 20th century," said Cal Jillson, a political scientist at Southern Methodist University. "We've moved away from the idea of white male elites guiding the authority to the idea that every citizen should have an equal role.

    "Part of what's going on in the tea party elements of the Republican electorate is, they look out and see a population that is much more diverse than their memories of Texas and their childhood years."

    Patterson says no

    The two other Republicans running for lieutenant governor - Agriculture Commissioner Todd Staples and Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson - have taken different positions.

    Staples said he supports "any conversation about how to limit the size and scope of the federal government and its ever-mounting debt, including a rigorous debate about the merits of repealing the 17th Amendment." He specifically did not endorse a repeal.

    Patterson took to Facebook and created distance between him and his competitors by publicly opposing the idea.

    "I do not advocate the repeal of the 17th Amendment," Patterson wrote. "Without it, Texas would not have Senator Ted Cruz today."

    Therein lies an irony: Without the direct election of senators, those same groups howling about a repeal would be left without their current champion: Cruz.
    "For a lot of us, that would be heartbreaking," said Toby Marie Walker, president of the Waco Tea Party.

    Even though the issue has become a hot topic for tea partiers across the country, it's not a slam dunk with conservative groups across the state. The main reason: Those same tea party groups that distrust the federal government also are almost equally leery of state government.

    "We have so many issues in Texas to deal with about getting our own house in order that I'm not really sure having our state leaders choose our U.S. senators is something I'm interested in at the moment," said JoAnn Fleming, an influential tea party activist in Tyler. "I trust the people to make decisions."

    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/article/Talk-of-repealing-17th-Amendment-invades-4901939.php
     
  2. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Tea party is the worst thing to happen to the US politics this century.
     
  3. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    Tea party = Nazi.
     
  4. Cannonball

    Cannonball Contributing Member

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    Because that way, they can essentially gerrymander Senate seats too.

    **** democracy!
     
  5. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    I'm confused. How exactly would senators chosen by state legislators, instead of elected by citizens, bring a more positive outcome?

    How is that the case? I don't get it. It appears this is being proposed as something that increases powers at state level vs. federal, but I don't see how.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    No one knows. This has been one of the Tea Party's boogeyman issues since 2010 - it makes no sense at all, but somehow it's become a rallying cry from the party. My best guess is that someone said "repeal the 17th Amendment!" at a tea party rally and everyone joined in, while no one actually knew what the 17th Amendment was.
     
  7. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Let's be honest here. The Tea folks are the wingnuttiest Republican base stoked by lots of money from big money. Big money likes an appointed Senator because it's easier and cheaper to bribe the majority party legislators than swing a general election to get the guy you want to do favors for you. This is not a popular outcry, but a targeted group being played. However, while it seems to be working in this case, the creators lost control of their monster on a bunch of other issues.
     
  8. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    racist title
     
  9. da1

    da1 Member

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    While a repeal may seem logical to some in the Republican Party, the idea is "antiquated and stopped making sense the latter part of the 19th century and the early part of the 20th century," said Cal Jillson, a political scientist at Southern Methodist University. "We've moved away from the idea of white male elites guiding the authority to the idea that every citizen should have an equal role.
     
  10. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    Maybe racist...maybe accurate.

    Out yourself though Texxx, where do you stand on the 17th amendment? (I can't believe I am asking someone that question sincerely in the 21st century...F you Tea Party for lowering the level of political discourse in this country to a level not seen since a time when women could not vote).
     
  11. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    da1 -- do you hate whites?
     
  12. da1

    da1 Member

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    No. Do you hate blacks?
     
  13. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    of course not

    do you hate Indians?
     
  14. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    Hey, hey...you know what I hate? How people take shots at others instead of actually engaging them in discussion and speaking their mind on positions.

    Stop flag waving and start trying to decide what you think.

    So, texxx, 17th amendment...want to repeal it? Huh? Huh?
     
  15. da1

    da1 Member

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    You're lying. And no.
     
  16. tmoney1101

    tmoney1101 Contributing Member

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    They don't right now?
     
  17. Do_Not_Be_Alarm

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    Seriously? How does this logic work? My brain hurts right now trying to understand the Tea Party. I can’t believe these guys really believe this is a good idea for curtailing the federal government. Last I checked the people voting for Texas US Senators are Texan voters. Where is that picture of Jackie Chan hurting his brain.
     
  18. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    The tea party members are really making them selves look bad truly maybe the worst thing to happen to the country.
     
  19. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Well, I'm not stating that I'm in favor of repealing it, but if we assume that representatives, as a whole, are generally more knowledgeable and educated about politics compared to an ordinary citizen, than there is some logic in stating that lower representatives ( ie. the state ones) should be able to pick higher ones, who thus would be better suited for governance than those who are just elected by the rabble. It's not like it would be undemocratic, as the people would be still able to elect their own national representatives in the House. In addition, ( and this is the one argument I'm fairly sympathetic about), it would encourage people to pay more attention to state/local politics, because the state representatives picks the Senator and such.
     
  20. Do_Not_Be_Alarm

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    Because the Senator elected by the State Reps will be held to task by his new constituency...the State Reps….Bottom line if you have crazy State Reps like in Texas you will see more obstructionism in federal government.
     

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