1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Experience: Will any presidential candidate be ready on Day One?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Major, Feb 25, 2008.

  1. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,414
    Likes Received:
    15,846
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-02-24-Ready_N.htm

    Good USA Today article about the historical context of "experience".

    Will any presidential candidate be ready on 'Day One'?


    WASHINGTON — Ready, or not?

    Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama and Republican John McCain all boast about their preparation and credentials for the Oval Office — and their ability to, as Clinton has called it, be "ready on Day One to solve our problems."

    In South Texas last week, the New York senator urged voters "to think who you want to have in the White House answering the phone at 3 o'clock in the morning when some crisis breaks out somewhere in the world." McCain said in Columbus, "I'm not the youngest candidate, but I am the most experienced."

    And Obama said in Austin that his "cumulative experience," including as a community organizer in Chicago, "is the reason that I have the capacity to bring people together" and lead the nation.

    Maybe so, but the three leading contenders for president have less executive grounding than anyone elected to the White House in nearly a half-century. Each candidate has scored impressive achievements in life, but none has run a city or state, a small business or large corporation — or any bureaucracy larger than their Senate staffs and campaign teams.

    The crux of Clinton's campaign against Obama for the Democratic nomination centers on whether the 46-year-old, first-term senator from Illinois is ready to be president. In recent days, McCain, 71, has taken a similar line, calling Obama "dangerously naive."

    The debate is sure to continue into the fall over what experience is essential before taking on the job of managing the government, negotiating with Congress, commanding the armed forces, mobilizing public support at home and responding to crises abroad.

    What sort of president would each contender be on Day One? And how are voters supposed to figure that out?

    The Senate, home base for all three, is a better place to nurture presidential ambitions than to train for the White House, says Stanley Renshon, a political scientist at the City University of New York and psychoanalyst who has written books on the presidencies of Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. The White House and the Congress often demand different skills and styles, he says.

    "As a senator, you're sitting around in a committee or making a Senate speech and if you say, 'We ought to do X' and it turns out you should have done Y, you bury the speech or nuance it with another speech," Renshon says. "You have command responsibility as president. When you decide to send troops or not to send troops, that's a real commitment in terms of consequences."


    He says voters haven't focused on the readiness issue — Clinton's questions about Obama's experience haven't noticeably stalled his momentum — but predicts they eventually will turn to it. "Right now, people haven't really started to concentrate on the hard choices they'll have to make to trust" the candidates as potential presidents.

    So far, the political watchword in the 2008 campaign hasn't been experience; it's been change. The candidates with the most executive experience didn't make it to the final rounds of primaries and caucuses — among Republicans, Mitt Romney, a former CEO and Massachusetts governor who ran the 2002 Winter Olympics, and among Democrats, Bill Richardson. He served in Congress, in Bill Clinton's Cabinet and at the United Nations before becoming governor of New Mexico.

    "In my view, because the relationship between the Congress and (President Bush) has been so dysfunctional, voters basically saw experience as a negative factor," Richardson says. "They wanted something new and different. Voters wanted an inspirational type of candidate who was perceived to be a non-politician. I tried to weave 'change' and 'experience' as my mantra, but it just didn't work."

    Before the Iowa caucuses, Richardson ran three wry, 30-second TV ads that showed him at a mock job interview.

    "OK, 14 years in Congress, U.N. ambassador, secretary of Energy, governor of New Mexico, negotiated with dictators," a bored middle manager behind a desk said, clearly unimpressed as he thumbed through Richardson's application.

    "So what makes you think you can be president?"

    'Mr. Government' fails

    The obtuse interviewer may have had a point. Predictions about presidential performance — even for candidates with impressive backgrounds — are notoriously unreliable, says historian and presidential biographer Robert Dallek.

    "There are so many presidents with a great deal of experience who failed miserably," Dallek says. "Think first of all of James Buchanan, 1857 to 1861, from the run-up to the Civil War — so experienced that they called him 'Mr. Government' — and now invariably listed as one of the worst presidents in the country's history."

    Buchanan had been a member of the House and Senate, secretary of State and minister to Great Britain. As president, however, he did little to respond when Southern states began to secede from the Union.

    Buchanan's successor was Abraham Lincoln, a prairie lawyer who served eight years in the Illinois Legislature and one term in the U.S. House. "He had next to no experience at all," Dallek says, "and now is seen as probably the greatest president in the country's history."


    Voters have to assess for themselves a candidate's judgment, character and common sense, but "it really is a crapshoot," he says. "Experience is fine, but does it guarantee anything? Not by any stretch of the imagination."

    Even running a smart, disciplined campaign offers no assurances of competence. Ronald Reagan, widely viewed as one of the most consequential post-World War II presidents, dumped his top campaign staff in 1980 after struggling in the opening Iowa caucuses. Jimmy Carter led a shrewd, streamlined campaign for the job in 1976 — and then had a difficult presidency and was ousted by Reagan after one term.

    Reading the clues

    There are clues to what sort of president the current contenders would be from what they've said and what they've done:

    •McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, touts his service to the nation since he took an oath of allegiance as an entering midshipman at the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis at age 17. He was a Navy aviator and a POW during the Vietnam War, returning to serve for a year as commanding officer of a Navy training squadron with more than 1,000 service members — an experience he cited in a candidates' debate in California last month when asked about his leadership credentials.

    An Arizona senator for more than two decades, he has been chairman of the Commerce Committee and a leading voice on national security issues. He's also known for bucking Republican orthodoxy and working across party lines, one reason the most conservative elements of his party have been cool to his campaign.

    For all his experience, McCain has acknowledged that he doesn't know much about the economy, which is the most important issue worrying Americans, according to a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken this month.

    "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should," he told reporters in December while campaigning in New Hampshire. He joked, "I've got (former Federal Reserve chairman Alan) Greenspan's book."


    Although McCain's campaign has done well lately, it had to recover from an implosion last summer when his top aides left, his poll standing slumped and his campaign bank accounts were mostly exhausted.

    •Clinton, 60, has displayed her mastery of the details of domestic and foreign policy in a string of campaign debates. During eight years as first lady, she represented the United States in visits to 80 countries. In seven years as a senator from New York, she's worked on issues from veterans benefits to farm aid, sometimes in alliances with Republicans, and served on the Armed Services Committee.

    She describes herself as a strong manager who could ride herd on the sprawling federal bureaucracy — in contrast, she says, to Obama.

    "I do think that being president is the chief executive officer," she said at a debate in Las Vegas last month. "I respect what Barack said about setting the vision, setting the tone, bringing people together. But I think you have to be able to manage and run the bureaucracy. You've got to pick good people, certainly, but you have to hold them accountable every single day."

    Obama and others say she failed in her chief executive initiative as first lady. Her management of a health care task force early in her husband's presidency produced a controversial overhaul plan that went nowhere.

    •Obama says he's proven his good judgment by opposing the Iraq invasion from the start, in contrast to Clinton and McCain. He describes himself as an inspirational leader who can bring opposing forces together to get things done better than "this same old cast of characters" in Washington. He doesn't see the president as being "an operating officer," he says, and would rely on strong advisers to manage the details.

    "Now, being president is not making sure that schedules are being run properly or the paperwork is being shuffled effectively," he said at the Las Vegas debate. "It involves having a vision for where the country needs to go."

    Even so, Clinton and McCain say Obama offers more soaring rhetoric than solid results and question whether he can claim significant legislative accomplishments or adequate experience.

    He served eight years in the Illinois Legislature and has been in the U.S. Senate for three. That's less high-level government experience than any president since Dwight Eisenhower, whose background was in the military.

    The five-star general was supreme commander of allied forces in Europe during World War II.

    Lincoln or Hoover?

    "Maybe (Obama) is Lincoln; maybe he's (the beleaguered Herbert) Hoover. There's no way to tell in advance," says David Frum, a White House speechwriter at the beginning of Bush's tenure who wrote an account of his early presidency, The Right Man. However, that's probably not the decisive question, Frum says.

    "Americans don't vote for the guy with the most experience. If that was true, (Richard) Nixon would have defeated (John) Kennedy in 1960," Frum says. Instead, voters want candidates to meet a threshold of readiness that makes them an acceptable risk to elect as president. "What they seem to do is decide, 'Do you have enough?' "

    Little time to learn the ropes

    The question of readiness matters because presidents often face unexpected challenges in their first weeks and months in office, before there's been much time to install a staff or learn the ropes.

    Less than three months after taking office in 1961, Kennedy approved an invasion of Cuba by anti-Castro forces that had been planned during the Eisenhower administration. The Bay of Pigs venture failed disastrously and raised doubts among world leaders about the young American president.

    Less than four months after taking office, Harry Truman approved dropping atomic bombs on two Japanese cities — the culmination of a nuclear weapons program he hadn't even been told about as vice president. Six days later, after an immediate death toll estimated at more than 100,000, Japan surrendered. World War II was over.

    It's possible no one can be fully prepared for the velocity of the presidency, a point some presidents and their closest advisers acknowledge after they've made it there.

    Bill Clinton had been Arkansas governor for 12 years and had been a leading figure in national debates over domestic policy issues. Even so, after he became president in 1993 he quickly became enmeshed in controversies over gays in the military and the White House travel office, among other things. Only after stunning setbacks in the 1994 congressional elections — Democrats lost control of the House and Senate — did he seem to find his footing as president.

    George W. Bush had been Texas governor for six years, CEO of oil industry ventures and managing partner of baseball's Texas Rangers before moving into the Oval Office in 2001 — an "MBA president" who would bring corporate decision-making to the job. Less than eight months later, he had to deal with the Sept. 11 attacks.

    His job approval rating hit a historic high of 90% in the aftermath, but Bush has seen Americans' assessment of his presidency sour amid questions over whether the war in Iraq was necessary. His job approval rating was 33% in the latest USA TODAY poll.

    "The difference between being president and virtually any other job — running a company or being in the Congress or in the Senate or even being a governor — is the breadth and rapidity of decisions that come at you," says John Podesta, who was Bill Clinton's chief of staff. Podesta heads a think tank, the Center for American Progress.

    "You need to both be able to chart a course that emphasizes your priorities but (also) be able to handle and manage things that you never even thought of that are coming at you from left field," Podesta says.

    "Stuff just happens."

    Confronted by crisis

    Presidents have faced defining decisions, some unexpected, soon after taking office. Some examples:

    (you'll have to go to the website for the table)
     
  2. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,731
    Likes Received:
    3,479
    Wow that totally sucks.

    add another strike to that guy beyond immigration and Iraq. :(
     
  3. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 1999
    Messages:
    22,305
    Likes Received:
    8,156
    Of all the non-ex-presidents alive, only Gore. For the rest:

    No. Maybe Day One of Year Two.
     
  4. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    Which is the reason that the most important thing in a President is having a set of principles that guide him or her. When those crazy situations hit them, you have to be able to trust that the President will be able to draw on those principles in that decision.
     
  5. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,257
    Likes Received:
    5,220
    I can tell you who is totally unfit to be President:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,888
    Likes Received:
    36,462
    Good article - thanks for posting.
     
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    Whoa, that is awesome. He could infiltrate Pakistan and kill Bin Laden with that outfit.
     
  8. torque

    torque Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    925
    Why does that picture indicate that he will be unfit to be President?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Major Malcontent

    Major Malcontent Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2000
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    211

    Yep ol' George Dubya looks like a good ol' American boy, with the good ol' American aversion to anything foreign. He is the decider and he would never be caught wearin' an out fit that looks Arab.

    I am convinced he was elected because he looked like a guy you wouldn't mind having over for beer and BBQ while Kerry gave off a vibe like he was an (God forbid) intellectual.

    So we voted in the mouth breather. And it has worked SOOO well.

    I don't care if Obama rhymes with Osama....

    I don't care if his middle name is Hussien or Hitler or Tojo or Satan

    I don't care if you have pictures of him in an outfit that your narrow little minds associate with Islam. Which your narrow little minds associate with terrorism.

    It just amuses me to no end that you have to resort to this because your own candidate is just another retread, re-run of business as usual.
     
  10. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    10,225
    Likes Received:
    237
    IMO this article by Dick Morris, former political advisor to Bill Clinton, seems to address the thread question:

    OBAMA’S REAL EXPERIENCE: HIS CANDIDACY

    By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN

    Published on DickMorris.com on February 25, 2008.

    The best evidence of Obama’s readiness to lead the nation is the ability with which he has run for president. After all, what is more difficult, complicated, or challenging than getting elected president? What other life experience better illustrates one’s qualification to hold the office than a manifest skill in seeking it?

    For anyone who has ever been elected president, the race that sent them to the White House was the single most important event in their lives and dwarfs any other experience they might have had before running.

    As we have watched Obama surmount the hurdles that lay in his path, we cannot help but be impressed with his judgment. Adam Wallinsky, who served on Bobby Kennedy’s staff, once singled out good judgment as JFK’s most salient characteristic. Obama has faced so many delicate questions and issues and seems always to have the right feel for how to handle them.

    At the start of the contest, he chose to avoid running as a black candidate for president and ran, instead, as a candidate who happened to have black skin. He crafted a middle course between the determined rejection of his race and its grievances of a Clarence Thomas and its emphatic embrace by a Jesse Jackson or an Al Sharpton. While Hillary invoked her gender at every turn, Obama decided to transcend his race rather than invoke it.

    He began his candidacy eschewing donations from PACs and lobbyists, preserving his purity and giving him ground on which to stand in his claim to represent a new kind of politics, rejecting the special interests. When Hillary, whose campaign decisions have been as faulty as Obama’s have been flawless, wallowed in such donations, the Illinois Senator used the difference to paint her into the corner of the status quo candidate.

    Beyond simply avoiding special interest money, Obama learned the lesson of Joe Trippi and the Howard Dean campaign of 2004 (even though Trippi was working for Edwards) and used his star power to develop a massive cyber-roots fund raising base which he mobilized again and again by the click of a mouse. He realized the potential of the Internet to democratize campaign funding in a way the other candidates in general, and Hillary in particular, did not. (Mrs. Clinton invested tens of millions in direct mail instead with all of its costs and limited returns).


    When Hillary criticized him for lacking experience, he brilliantly seized the opening she provided by becoming the candidate of change. He realized, as Hillary and Bill did not, that America wanted a change beyond the Bush/Clinton oscillation and grasped the fact that Hillary’s emphasis on experience would play into his hands.

    And when the Clintons tried to use race to derail Obama, he countered skillfully by making Super Tuesday a referendum on tolerance and inclusivity, overtly rejecting the racial polarization which seemed to have set in after South Carolina. Underscoring his message with victories in white states like Utah, Idaho, Colorado and North Dakota, he buried the race issue.

    While the Clintons went for the knockout blows of winning New York and California, Obama created a fifty state organization to win each caucus state. As Hillary’s campaign wasted half a million dollars on flowers, Obama’s husbanded his resources to put teams on the ground in the small states where his organizing paid off and brought him sufficient victories to survive the loss of the two big Super Tuesday states.

    And when the Clintons went to full time negatives, Obama carefully parsed the attacks he would answer from those he wouldn’t and disdained to engage in the tit-for-tat negative campaigning, realizing that the process turned voters off more than the negatives themselves ever did.

    Will he be a good President? If he is half as skillful in serving as he has been in running, he can’t miss.
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,045
    Likes Received:
    42,025
    Its a good article, original article not Dick Morris', and a fair one.

    In my own assessment that has been the decisive question for the Dem. primaries since its been a two person race. While we can't foresee what the future will be with any of the candidates I have a far better feel for what it might be under a Hillary Clinton Admin vs an Obama Admin..
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,045
    Likes Received:
    42,025
    Its interesting as the original article addresses directly one of Dick Morris' points.

    And this from the original article:
    Dick Morris primarily praises Obama for running a good campaign as a sign that he will be a good president but that isn't necessarily a guarentee. I mentioned in another thread that GW Bush had run an almost masterful campaign in 2000 down to even the post election but all but the most hardcore Bush supporters would argue that he has had a good presidency.

    The original article also raises this point:
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,888
    Likes Received:
    36,462
    ^ The GWB comparison fails. Bush was practically ordained the GOP nominee by 1998.

    The fact that he had so much trouble with McCain, despite massive built-in $$$ advanatages and being the darling of the GOP establishment, and havign the full backing of the GOP machine (including their dirty tricks squads and talk-show assassins) indicts his campaigning skill rather than augments it.

    The two situations are qualititaively diffferent. If anything, GWB's primary campaign was a lot more like HIlary's - I'm the heir to the last head of the party, I'm inevitable - with Obama being the 00 version of McCain - except Obama succeeded in staging the upset.
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,045
    Likes Received:
    42,025
    Its true that Bush had trouble with McCain and that both started out the campaign in somewhat different positions but its not like Obama has had a cakewalk over Clinton in 2008 either or that Obama has been the darkhorse either as its been pretty much been expected since 2004 that Obama would run. Either way the Bush 2000 campaign still beat McCain and a sitting VP with a candidate with subpar oratorical skills.

    Anyway that still doesn't guarentee that a well run campaign is any guarentee for a well run presidency as the original article notes.
     
  15. remy

    remy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    the day one argument is weak in that we dont know who will be 'ready' until they are given the opportunity to be ready.

    and then my friends its too late. :)

    sure people can be better equipped to handle the onslaught of issues and quick decisions they must make. but everyone handles stress and decision making differently and unless you have done this job before you wont be more or less ready than someone else.

    i find it disenchanting for clinton's campaign to keep pushing for experience as a factor of being ready for [day one]. why are we made to think day one is important?

    who is gonna be ready for the next four years given whatever happens to our country (bad economy, bad foreign relations, a number of unknown catastrophic problems etc).

    i think we have to suck it up and say -- we dont know who will be ready on day one or ever. we can only hope that someone making it to this stage of the race has the necessary skill set needed for the position.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,888
    Likes Received:
    36,462
    That comparison is pretty labored.

    Either way - Bush's early presidency was very well run in terms of attaining policy goals. He got most of his policies implemented in very short order during his first term, even before Sept. 11. THe only problem was his policies were inherently bad and had the corresponding negative effects.

    Now, you could come back and tell me that you're worried Obama too will implement bad policies - but given the neglgible policy differences between himself and Clinton in either form or ideology, I find it hard to believe that you could credibly make that argument if you profess to be a Clinton supporter.
     
  17. thelasik

    thelasik Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,347
    Likes Received:
    72
    Is the debate going to be streamed online tonight?
     
  18. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468

    you might try CNN
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,414
    Likes Received:
    15,846
    Not sure, but apparently Bahrain already knows how it will play out. From tomorrow's edition of their daily newspaper:

    http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=209976&Sn=WORL&IssueID=30344


    Obama 'not prepared' to handle crisis



    WASHINGTON: Hillary Clinton suggested Barack Obama was not prepared to handle a global crisis in a debate last night that offered one of her last chances before next week's must-win primaries.

    They faced off in a debate at Cleveland State University.

    She portrayed Obama as a national security novice and said Americans can be assured she would not need a "foreign policy instruction manual" to keep the country safe.

    She also compared him to President George W Bush.

    Obama, meanwhile, put in something of a good word for Clinton at an Ohio campaign stop, saying voters should support Democrats, because "myself or Senator Clinton, we're all concerned about creating a better social safety net".

    Former Democratic presidential candidate and superdelegate Chris Dodd yesterday endorsed Barack Obama.


    :confused:
     
  20. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468



    She's floated a few trial balloons with this attack. Also the NYTs article today seemed to touch on what's to come.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now