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Ex Head of US Special Forces: Iraq Invasion Created ISIS

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    It is understandable Bobbie's need not to think his efforts while in the military led to the creation of ISIS and a little longer US occupation would have made every thing worthwhile.

    Here is an interesting Washington Post article saying among other things that most Iraqis hate Americans and many actually think that the US is aiding or actually created ISIS rather than what many American analysts think that the US by creating a failed state in Iraq and encouraging a civil war with death squads and all to fight the Sunni insurgency led to ISIS inadvertently. BTW since we are fighting on the side of ISIS to overthrow Assad and keep supplying weapons to near imaginary moderate fighters who tend to turn the weapons over to AL Qaeda or ISIS you can see how they might think that.

    Yeah, Bobbie and gang it would have all turned out ok if we had just stayed until they finally learned to love us and finally would give us with candy and flowers as your heroes Cheney and Rumsfeld promised.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...-is-hurting-the-war/ar-AAfV2YF?ocid=spartandh
     
    #61 glynch, Dec 2, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  2. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    SMH, you trying to tell me what "many American analysts" think is just hilarious.

    Anyway, I know that while Iraq could have become a success story if things were handled properly, you are a complete lost cause and I'm not going to waste much time on you.
     
  3. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Hitler was a Catholic in good standing, I guess there were some non-denominational or atheist/Wiccan types among individual executives, but I can't imagine a large percentage of officers or below identified as anything but Christian. Except for the Soviets, Western Allies were all Christian, so it's probably a moot point.
     
  4. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    I said above that disbanding the army was an avoidable blunder. Thinking again , I think maybe it wasn't so avoidable in context. At the time, the Sunni factions were aligned with Saddam and the US (Bremer) was courting the Shia (Sadr) majority to support a democratic government. Sadr knew he had the power to make demands. It well could have been that the Shia demanded the removal of the Sunni army that had been their oppressors. The point is, the politics were very complex and we actually knew very little about the internal power struggles.

    Here's and article from 2006 that explains it some:
    Moqtada al-Sadr and U.S.'s Fate in Iraq
    http://www.newsweek.com/moqtada-al-sadr-and-uss-fate-iraq-105197
     
  5. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Isis created Isis. Radicalism is all about isolating the ability of someone to meet and understand other people, ideas, and differences and accept their humanity. That isolation was not given a substrate by the war. It was their own doing. They gained traction by organizing and developing a system to do this.
     
  6. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Contributing Member

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    I don't buy your line of reasoning. You seem to completely discount the fact that the American people's war weariness was at an all-time high and the military had been stretched for years. Staying there was not an option. Staying there would have exacerbated the situation with our military. In a best-case scenario, staying there would have only postponed ISIS, as we couldn't stay there indefinitely.

    The mission's slim chances of success in Iraq were dashed in the first week of the invasion when L. Paul Bremer disbanded the Iraq military. There was no coming back from that mistake.
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I don't see how the American people being mentally weak is relevant, staying was not only an option, it was the right thing to do. The military was disbanded in Japan and Germany and it worked out in the end.....do you just think that Iraqis are a lesser people who can't handle modern civilization?

    I certainly don't think that. With a proper commitment Iraq would have been just fine but the American leaders foolishly bent to the wishes of a weak minded public.....which is pretty much what AQI and later ISIS said would happen.
     
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The power structure of the Nazi party (Hitler/Borman/Goebbels/Speer/Himmler) did not have a very high opinion of Christianity.

    Adolf Hitler did not attend church as an adult and made a number of negative comments about Christianity and did everything that he could to limit the influence of the Church.

    To compare ISIS (which is religiously motivated) to the NAZI movement is a false equivalency.

    Is there a deeply religious Christian in the NAZI hierarchy? Probably, I cannot think of who that would be.
     
  9. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    Did you hear anyone promote raising taxes to pay for it?
    Did Congress bring the VA up to a respectable level to serve the veterans the war was creating?

    It's like saying investors were weak for pulling out of Enron, the company could have been saved if people had just put more money in it. At some point lost causes cease to deserve re-investment.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Contributing Member

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    Plus the fact that the US military is made up of the American people.
     
  11. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    We can stay forever and not worry about paying for it. It's mentally stupid to plan out an end game. Staying indefinitely is the smartest plan for an occupation military force where the local hate your gut. 2 Trillion+ into the holes with hundred thousands of death isn't quite enough. Let's continue that for another 30 years. And OBL would finally achieve his goal to bankrupt the USA.
     
  12. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    Your snark is true.... our resources are limited and have to be prioritized. At some point we spent all we can spend on Iraq. We've got healthcare, infrastructure, education etc etc to pay for.
     
  13. dharocks

    dharocks Contributing Member

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    Didn't Hitler detest the Pope (who was a co-conspirator in multiple assassination attempts against the former)?
     

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