1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

employee #8 be our sf?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Hard Rock, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    28
    just read this article on the realgm and thought Walker might fit in well in the rox
    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/100899p-91377c.html

    Antoine trade isn't dead yet
    Frank Isola

    BOSTON - The proposed trade that would have brought Antoine Walker to New York would have included Mike Sweetney, the Knicks' first-round draft pick.
    According to a league source, the Knicks offered Sweetney, Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward and Frank Williams to Boston for Walker, the All-Star forward. The trade was discussed after the Knicks made Sweetney the ninth overall pick in last month's NBA draft.

    Boston rejected the deal but may reconsider if it can't find a better offer for Walker. Celtics GM Danny Ainge appears committed to trading Walker.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    i'd love to have Walker to play sf for us (not as pf). and would trade the Cat, Taylor, and Nachbar for his service (don't know if that's a "better offer" than Sweetney+Kurt Thomas+Ward+F. Williams)
    Walker sure has the speed, handle, and perimeter shooting to play sf, imo, he'd be unstoppable if play the 3. you might argue he's not quick enough to grard the smaller 3s but no sf can guard him either (KG's a 4 now:D). I liked the EG/KT 3&4 combination last season and Walker is even more skilled at the 3 than KT. he took as many bad shots as Mobley though, but I think that'll change if he play the sf. you might think it'll only get worse if he play the 3 because he'd play more outside-Wrong! 6'9"/245lb at the 3, Walker would be much bigger and stronger than the opponets he'll face. if you play bball you should know that'll make you play inside, that'll make you want/try to overpower your man. as a power forward, Walker must think he's quicker and shoots better from outside than most 4s in the league so he try to max his strenth and that makes him play so much outside game. if move to the 3 i believe he'll try more inside move and eventually improve his fg%(more like SAR when playing the sf position). though has bad shot selection, Walker is not a ball-hog like Mobley. when his teamates gets open Walker'll find them and send the ball there. for the past 3 seasons, Walker has avg. more than 5 asi/g. he can easily give you 20pt/8.5reb/5asi/1.6stl every night. instead of the small line-up of Steve/Mobley/A. Griffin, Walker @ sf also improve our defense by move Griffin to guard most opponets' top scorer at the 2.
    that'll give us a line-up like this:

    Yao Ming, Cato
    E. Griffin, (Walker), Badiane
    A. Walker, Rice, Hawkins
    A. Griffin, Pike
    S. Francis, Norris

    time for the Big Splash? :(
     
  2. Sane

    Sane Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Messages:
    7,330
    Likes Received:
    0
    Walker is a PF, and a bad one at that. However, some people are saying he's been workign out like crazy, has dropped the fat, and put on some muscle. Still, I wouldn't pay him 25M over 2 seasons for what he brings.

    He should stay in the East where he can stay at PF.
     
  3. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    10,225
    Likes Received:
    236
    Too many bucks for the bang. Back to the cafe, Hard Rock.
     
  4. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    28
    Sane, it's true that Walker is a bad PF but didn't I said I want him as a SF not as a 4? so I guess the only concern is whether or not he can play the 3. tell me your reason that you think Walker can't move to the 3. speed? handle? shooting? size? or what? if J. Howard, S.A.R., Horry, K.T., Mason, Marshall, Dirk, Jamison... all can/could play SF why not Walker? imo, Walker is more skilled at the 3 than all those players except Dirk. a E.G./Walker forward combination should do well against most teams in the league.

    and if a player who can gives you 20/8.5/5/1.6 and like you said "is working out like crazy, has dropped the fat, and put on some muscle" why not deserve $12.5 mil/yr? so you'd rather pay Taylor+Nachbar for 9 mil/yr? plus Walker's contract comes off a year later and we'll have more flexbility(excise our bird right to re-sign him, or persue other FAs) while Taylor & Nachbar's last 3 more years.

    thumbs, i don't even mind what you say.
     
  5. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Messages:
    15,991
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Walker could join 'my' team...and be a perfect '4' for opening up things for Yao.

    I do not see him as a JVG-type '4' where the Oak-Kurt Thomas type seems supreme.

    'toine as a '3'? No way!
     
  6. Stack24

    Stack24 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Messages:
    11,582
    Likes Received:
    1,373
    We really don't need a person that is going to come down the floor and look for his shot more than the people we already have. he is a scorer and that is his mentality. I mean you saw it in the Playoffs if you watched it. He lead the league in 3 pointers made but also in attempts but his percentage is horrible as shown in his all star game 3 point contest debut. (which they jacked Stevie on since he was like 4th best in the league at the time) anyways. the guy will do anything to score and does not want to play defense. He is a crappy fit for our team and that's why Celtics don't want him. He takes teams out of the game real easily when he gets frustrated.

    He's a scorer and that's it. If you need points he will get them but at a price.
     
  7. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    28
    again, reason?

    c'mon 3 or 4 isn't really that important. it's the skills make the play. Kenny Thomas was a better 3 than Rice and Nachbar last season; and I tell you Walker would be much better than K.T. at the 3. Anthony Mason was a PF at the biginning but won the 6th man award and made his first All-Star appearanceas as a SF. Juwan Howard and S.A.R. imo, played better when were playing SF.

    any of you guys really watch much of Walker's game?:confused:
     
  8. Sane

    Sane Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Messages:
    7,330
    Likes Received:
    0
    "J. Howard, S.A.R., Horry, K.T., Mason, Marshall, Dirk, Jamison"

    Those guys are really not prototypical SF's.

    The reason I don't think Walker can be OUR 3, is because his shot is not good enough (%) and he's not laterally quick enough to guard the quicker SF's in the league.

    However, I'm not saying he's the worse option in the world. I would do it if Boston took 2 of the following contracts off our hands:

    MoTay
    Moochie
    Cato


    Their choice of any 2 of those. Why? Because Mo makes about 35M over the rest of his contract, which is 10M less than Walker does. We also get rid of any of the other players. Moochie makes 9M more, and Cato I believe makes 21M over the rest of his contract. Les would be making money.

    However, I would NO WAY give up Mobley, Griffin, or Rice in a deal for Walker. If we are offering Griffin and Rice, I'd much rather have Shareef. If we're offering Griffin and Cato, I'd much rather have Brian Grant. If we're offering Rice and Mobley, God knows what we could get in return.

    Walker can't be worse than Glen Rice at the 3, I'll give you that. He's definitely better than Boki, and a post presence would increase his % significantly. His defense is my main concern, and his ability to reduce his number of shots and focus on the season rather than an extension.
     
  9. Sane

    Sane Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Messages:
    7,330
    Likes Received:
    0
    On a side note, Boston and Golden State would be really smart to swap their tweeners.

    Walker's a better 3 than Jamison, and Jamison is a better 4 than Walker. Jamison averaged 25ppg at PF, God knows how well he'd do in the East at PF.
     
  10. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    28
    Stack24, you sounds like Mobley and Taylor are always think pass first. and just for you to know Walker avg. more asist than Mobley+Taylor+Nachbar combined.
    and .333% 3pt fg% (.377% in playoffs) isn't that bad.
    btw, you remember when the last time you see Taylor play D?
     
  11. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    10,225
    Likes Received:
    236
    Hard Rock, be a Rocket fan rather than an Antoine Walker fan for a moment. First, by taking on Walker's huge salary, we lose our ability to pay team members, current and future, who can play both defense and offense. Second, we would have to give up too much for him, which also pretty much guarantees that we will remain a bottom feeder. Third, even if we wanted to expend our salary cap and basic corps of players for him, other teams (like New York) already are offering more.

    Wait for the "let's get Kevin Garnett" landslide next year just as we have endured the "Sheed" stampede, the Odom open, the SAR swoon, etc. etc. of days past. I can't help it if realism and reason interfere with wishful thinking, but that's why we discuss the pros and cons of ideas on this board.

    Incidentally, the Hard Rock Cafe once was a favorite hangout.
     
  12. 3d-homer

    3d-homer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    1
    No way I do this deal. Look at the guys shooting %.

    Oh and this is just what we need, another 6'8 fat man that has a perimeter game.
     
  13. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    28
    Sane, not prototypical SF's so what? I'd LOVE to have any of those to play SF for us.

    ok, 1.) everyone knows his FG% is awful for a PF. like I said, move him to the 3 would only help him improve his % because he'd be able to overpower his man, therefore would post up more and eventually play closer to the basket. (for example: put Payton at the 2 and his % would drop below 400% because he won't be able to post up so much on bigger player and would jack-up much more 3pt which he's not very good at.)
    2.) so you want a SF who can guard all kind of players? big and quick? who the hell on our team can do that now? is Rice quick enough? is A. Griffin big enough? c'mon, you just can't have everything perfect. Dirk can't guard the quicker SFs but hell i'd kill to have him play SF for our team.

    I only said Taylor+Mobley+Nachbar for Walker. that's 9mil/yr from Taylor and Nachbar for 3 years. Mobley's contract of course is cheap but I'd rather get rid of Taylor+Nachbar's 9mil per and get a better player in Walker.
     
  14. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2000
    Messages:
    8,325
    Likes Received:
    78
    First, I was a Celtics fan growing up and it continued on through the Bird/McHale/Parish era. I have NBALP, love Paul Pierce's game and Heinsohn and Goren are one of the best NBA announcing combos today. So yes, I do watch the Celtics. And we don't need Antoine Walker.

    Secondly, the C's are not going to give up an EC All Star for the Rockets backup C or PF. Not without Mobley being shipped out (probably to a 3rd team as Pierce also plays SG). Plus, in your argument for the trade, you can't have it both ways...you can't bash Mo's D and then tell us Ainge wants him. If you don't value Taylor, why would Ainge?

    Assuming Walker could play SF in the WC (which I doubt, but won't debate it now), trading Mobley and Taylor for Walker means we've weakened two positions to (maybe) upgrade one. But perhaps the biggest reason I can't ever see Walker on the Houston roster is JVG...
     
    #15 GATER, Aug 12, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2003
  15. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    28
    thumbs/3d-homer,

    man, you guys still concerning the % and salary.

    1.) pay Walker $25mil. over 2 years is better than pay Taylor+Nachbar $27mil. over 3 years. ($42mil. if including Mobley)

    2.) Walker, imo, is a much better player than Mobley. and most fans/experts outside of Houston would agree.

    3.) I don't argue his % because I hate it too. that's why I keep saying only if we move him to the 3 and make him play more inside/post-up game against smaller SFs.

    4.) I think A. Griffin/Walker is better than Mobley/A. Griffin at 2 & 3
     
  16. Sane

    Sane Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Messages:
    7,330
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ummm, I just thought of this. If Walker is so much betetr at SF, why wouldn't the Celtics just move him there, put a rejuvenated Vin Baker at the 4, and Tony Battie at the 5? That would make a pretty freakin' good line-up if Walker is as godo as you say.

    I'm not convinced Walker could post up SF's effectively enough to raise his FG%. Besides, if we wanted a SF who back his player in, we would've kept Kenny Thomas. We need a sweet shooting SF, who has great range. Walker is a barely decent 3-pt shooter, takes TOO MANY 3's, and is a whiner.

    Like I said, I wouldn't gice up Rice, Mobley, Griffin, and probably Nachbar. I would do any of these though, which the Celtics would never do:

    Cato + Taylor

    Taylor + Moochie

    Cato + Moochie


    Nothing else I'd give up for Walker. Like I said, it doesn't improve us if we give anyone else up, and I'd rather have other players for different deals.
     
  17. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,120
    Likes Received:
    186
    I wouldn't trade Mobley for Walker straight up. Our back court is very thin, if we trade Mobley we better get at least a 15ppg 2 guard in the deal otherwise our starting 2 is Pike with Moochie and A Griffin as our only backcourt backups.

    That is way to thin.
     
  18. Nova

    Nova Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are too many risks. Walker may not be able to play the 3, he may not be able to improve his fg or 3 pt % and he may still be a fat ass towing quite a bit of salary. I really hate Walker and I would not give up Mobley to get him. Taylor sure, Moochie.. why not?, Nachbar.. err.. maybe, but no one else. Which of course Boston wouldn't agree to, but oh well, Rox don't need Walker anyways. Rox don't need another shooter, and a low % shooter at that. We have Pike to drain those 3's now. Francis, Mobley and Pike are all better options to pop treys than Walker. Anyways, I'm sure the Rox could pick up someone better than that if they wanted to.. they have Rice (highly valued), Mobley (bargain thus has value), and Cato (trade value has been upped). Pass on Walker.
     
  19. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    28
    GATER,
    i point out Mo's D because everyone here seems concerning Walker's D. not too many player in this league are perfect in everything. of course Taylor has his value, he's a proven scorer. and the main piece should be Mobley. like you say, maybe Mobley to a third team for a PG (Hudson? J. Williams?)

    :confused: that's pointless.
    would you trade Mobley+Griffin (two positions) for Dirk (one)?
    I'm not saying Walker=Dirk (not even close) but the "2 for 1" shouldn't be a concern if you can really upgrade your line-up and Walker definily is an upgrade of Rice/A.G./Nachbar. imo, we upgrade a 2/3 combo of Mobley/A.G. to A.G./Walker. it's easy to find a replacement for the reserve PF position (Trent, T. Hill, Malik, Ford, Ham, P. Jones, or move Cato to 4 and sign Stepania to back up Yao Ming) man I'd rather replace Mobley with Jon Barry.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now