I noticed in another thread that Danny Ainge said there isn't much difference in Thomas and Brand. I think that is very true. When Thomas plays he looks just as good as Elton to me. The only difference is the Rocks picked him up at 24 while the Bulls made a huge mistake in taking Brand at 1 instead of Francis. This sounds eerily similar to 1984 when the Rockets passed up on the greatest player arguably of all-time. I'm not saying Francis is Jordan or that drafting Olajuwon was a mistake. But damn Francis is good. Back to my point, do yall think Thomas is as good as Brand?
Maybe better. Now that he is getting some good, quality minutes we will see what Kenny Thomas can do in the NBA. I am really excited about this guy. ------------------ Lottery? I don't think so.
*sigh*... the guy has a couple of games, and you're willing to declare him better than Elton Brand. As for Danny Ainge... if he weren't saying what you wanted him to say, you would call him an idiot. It's hard to evaluate talent so quickly... personally, I think KT will be a very good role player... perhaps the same sort of talent as Anthony Mason. I just don't like such effusive statements, because they're almost certain to dissappoint.
hey atleast we did'nt draft bowie soone ------------------ johnny "red" kerr:i'm glad the bulls did'nt draft steve francis. dan roan: why!!!!! johnny red kerr:because he would forever be compared to michael jordan. [This message has been edited by brahma rocket (edited January 19, 2000).]
That's pretty poor judgment haven. Why do you assume I would call him an idiot. Your arguement would have merit if I had criticized Ainge in the past. In fact I always thought he was going to be one of the next great coaches at Phoenix. Other than the Elie incident, the guy is a very knowlegable basketball person. You're correctomundo on the Bowie thing Brahma. That had to be the all-time bust of the draft. It might not look as bad as it does if Jordan wasn't passed on to pick that ole has-been. You gotta give MJ his props and you gotta criticize Portland for being a dumbass organization. You also gotta criticize the Rocks for not trading Sampson for Portland's pick. We coulda had Drexler, Dream, and MJ. It hurts to think of things like that when you know the Rocks could've won like 15 years in a row. Oh well, hindsight is definitely 20/20. By the way if hindsight is 20/20, then what's foresight?
Well, fair enough, I would say, in the last 2 games, Kenny has been as good as, or even better than, Elton Brand. But for the long run, we just have to see.
Kenny's numbers in college were just as good as Brand's and most scouts agreed that Thomas had the more complete game. He is not only a threat in the post but from the perimeter as well. He rebounds as well as Brand and showed as good, if not better, ball handling skills than Brand in college. The big knock on Kenny coming out of college was his desire. He didn't play with intensity every night and would disappear in big games. He was also rumoured to have weight problems. Brand was also considere to have played against tougher competition in the ACC. The final nail in the coffin as far as the draft was concerened was that in the one college matchup he had against Brand, he played very poorly. At draft time every scouting report I read on Kenny said that if he could be persuaded to come to play every night he would easily be as good as Brand and maybe even better. From the looks of his play with the Rockets I would say that he is well on his way to overcoming the stigma of not playing with intensity every night. Here's to hoping those scouts were right.
Agreed Valdez. It is not a knock on Thomas to say he could be a poor mans Brand. In fact Odom may very well be considered the 3rd best rookie by the end of the year. I still think Francis will be #1, but there is a lot of the season left.
JuanValdez, not to knock you because you have good points but it always seems that you are conformist in your statements. Everyone hyped Brand out of college everyone!, a very picayune hype was put on Kenny in retrospect. It just seems that you think that Brand is better than kenny cause he was drafted earlier, I think that Kenny's play as of late on GOOD PF's is reason to conclude that he is a better all around player and if he isn't proving it now he will soon. And I still think Mobley is better than Dickerson. --Rocketman
Thomas has been looking good recently, but I wonder how carefully everyone has been watching Brand. He is very good. He'll be a 20 and 10 guy for his career. I'm hoping Thomas will be as well. But, there's no way Thomas is as good as Brand, though I'm hoping he'll prove to be good enough that we draft a SF instead of a PF in the draft.
Unless he adds mass, Thomas cannot consistently match up against the league's PFs. It's too early to say how well he will play, but with Francis drawing so much attention from interior defenses, it's allowing Thomas to grab more rebounds. Mobley better than Dickerson? Mobley is a better ball-handler, but Dickerson is quicker and has a more consistent outside shot. It's not in his personality, but if Dickerson was more agressive, defenses would have a harder time containing him. Would you rather have Dickerson or Mobley in the backcourt with Francis?
University... ADDS MASS, Thomas already weighs 260 pounds. That is plenty to play PF in the NBA. Thomas is coming along fine....JUST START HIM already. Put Bullard back on the pine. DaDakota
Agreed. It's time to start him. That's the easy decision. The more difficult decision is when Cato comes back. Then who...Cato is very explosive (on occasion) and a defensive monster. Thomas is the more consistent offensive player. Who do you start? Personally, I go with Thomas because he's the best low post threat right now. If his scoring drops below 15 ppg and his shooting dips below 50% I bench him. This team seems to thrive more when they are putting the ball in the basket. Thomas does that a little better than Cato. So he gets the nod. But I betcha anything, Rudy gives Cato the nod.
Good points Juan. I'd only contest one thing: Brand isn't a good pick. Evaluating a selection shouldn't be done on the basis of the success of the player, but rather on the expected and actual success of a player relative to other picks following him. Nobody ever expected Brand to be a superstar... and he isn't. He's a good player... perhaps even a (non-super) star. However, Francis and Odom ARE going to be superstars in all likliehood... and this was common wisdom before the draft, as well. Krause went with the safe pick... not the best available player, not the player with the highest ceiling. Safe picks may be good in the middle of the 1st round, when a team NEEDS a contributor. The bulls NEED a superstar... and their GM was too much of a coward to draft one.
Actually, I don't think they took Brand because he's safe; I think they took him because he was the best PF in the draft. Now, I'm not endorsing this method of drafting, but I think that Krause wanted to build up a prototypical new team, centered around a low-post game (like Houston's (of old) or Utah's). So even as great as Francis and Odom looked (and turned out to be), they were not going to give him the power in the position he wanted. Only Brand could do that. Will the Bulls succeed with this thinking? I think that will depend on the free agent market this summer. If he gets the FAs he wants, he'll look like a genius. If not he'll look like an idiot, and doubly so for passing on two obvious superstars.
Actually, I heard they took Brand b/c he and McGrady have the same agent, and the agent promised the Bulls first crack at McGrady in the offseason if they picked Brand #1. Makes sense to me. I don't know why else they'd pick Brand.
There's another good reason for picking Brand here... In general, a great PF is not as likely to turn around a team instantly - he's going to have to get stronger and more experienced before he does. A great PG can have that instant impact because he also makes teammates better. It's better to take the PF first, suck again, get another #1 pick rather than take the PG first, do OK but not great, and then get the #6 or #7 pick the next year. If you know you're not going to compete this year, then do what's best for the team 2 or 3 yrs down the line. If they had taken Francis, chances are that they would not get as great a player next year. If we had gotten Brand instead of Francis, we'd probably have a top pick next year....
Back to the subject of this thread: Elton Brand vs. Kenny Thomas. As my nickname implies, I attended the same school as Kenny and am a huge KT fan. I don't think anbody gave him a shot at getting any real PT coming out of the draft (especially with Barkley and Harrington still on the roster). So I'm thrilled to see what he's done so far this season, particularly the last 4-5 games of course. Having said that, Kenny has a LONG way to go before he can really compared to Elton Brand. All you have to do really is compare their numbers on NBA.com. Brand is clearly the Bulls' leader at this point with his all-around game. He is also a legitimate contender for ROY (along with Francis and Odom). Yes, Kenny has a streak of double doubles going, but Brand has been doing it consistently all season. If KT performs at this level for another few weeks, then let's talk.
I'll say one thing about KT. Lately, his footwork has improved noticeably. He used to travel nearly everytime. He has shown enthusiam to be a monster rebounder, as well. The guy has shown up to play in this league. I am thrilled! When talking about stars and superstars, my criteria is: A star is a legitimate go-to guy for a team, or anchorman defender/rebounder (Rodman/Mutombo). A superstar is a go-to guy who can consistently beat a double-team or make them pay. Role players are not stars. What we won't be able to tell for awhile is how KT does against double-teams. He will face them when he starts scoring regularly. That's generally the make or break thing between being a good role-player and star. He'll need to get his shot off quicker, and/or develop a repertoire of moves to get spacing. One move like Harrington's running hook won't cut it. I've seen him get stuffed in one-on-one situations. He doesn't seem to like that anymore. He's working. I'm looking for the first over-under move (ala McHale) that he did in college. If he get's that going, I'll be even more thrilled, because generally you have to have other threats for that fake to work in the NBA. At that point, he'd be right there with Brand...no doubt.
Thomas looks like a decent player and an oustanding prospect and probably should even be starting. But you can't tell be he would put up Brand-like #'s in PPG, RPG & BPG (the last one especially) if Chicago drafted him instead. I am not a Brand fan, I do believe he was slightly overated, and I hate Duke, but the guy is already a pretty good NBA player, will have a long and solid career barring injury, and I don't see Kenny ever being quite his all-around level. Again, I don't think this is a knock on Kenny, but I don't think he could ever be the defensive presence Brand can be. However, I think I might rather have a core backcourt of Francis, Anderson and Mobley than Francis, Anderson and Dickerson, which I think that is more relevant than simply comparing Dickerson to Mobley. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited January 21, 2000).]
