Sure, I am coming in late in the discussion, but I wanted to add a little. 1. Columbus was a bad man. Sure, he sailed to the wrong place and became famous, but he was nasty. In letters he wrote, he mentions the wonderful people he found that are peaceful and would thus make good slaves. He crammed them onto boats and sent them to Europe, many died-etc. Additionally, he allowed free reign to anyone to rape and abuse the native women. There were a few angry missionaries that would document this. He also stole anything that looked valuable. So, I would prefer he not be made into a hero. 2. Yes, there has been little of great "historic" value done by blacks. It is kind of hard when you are busy getting beaten, segregated, put into horrible inner city schools (I have been there) and been told the only way you will amount to anything is through athletic ability. But on the same hand, trying to "rediscover" the real inventors or creators of history is taking it too far. Jeff - I am not talking about Carver. 3. White people have done good things in history. White americans have doe good things. But they have also done much harm. Native Americans we all know, Occupation of the Phillipines (soldiers were ordered to kill an male above the age of 12 for a period) and the list goes on. But this can be said for any group of people, any government. That is life. All we can do is understand the truth and continue to see it. School is not the place to learn. On any level. At best, it can only teach you how to learn (and only at the highest levels). ------------------ rimbaud post-a-thon 2000
Regarding the subject of acurate history I just wrote a research paper on Columbus for my world history class about why Columbus was a cruel man. A couple of great books to read are: 1. Lies My Teacher Told Me By James Loewen. In this book he goes through about 17 history books and talks about how they are wrong. he also wrote a book called The Truth About Columbus but lies my teacher told me is better. 2. A Peoples History Of The United States By Howard Zinn. He looks at history from the other view point. He looks at Columbus from the Native Americans view point. Both of those books are must reads. ------------------ ~John~ If you make it idiot proof, they will make a better idiot. Houston NHL
And I don't have a problem with that being taught. The history of racial prejudice and bigotry in this country is an important element in its evolution. It has to be taught. When a minority figure-- such as the ones that Jeff mentioned-- is an integral part of this country's history, then they should be mentioned as such. When they did nothing more than contribute from the periphery, it's absurd to over-emphasize their achievements simply because they were a member of a minority group. Speak for yourself. I learned about each of these people in elementary, middle, and high school. They were each adequately represented in the curriculum of the schools I attended: * A mostly minority elementary school in Columbus, Ohio (I was part of a busing program) * Mostly white middle and high schools in Kingwood, Texas. As for 'hoopjunkie', I didn't say or imply any of those things. It appears to me that you find my argument difficult to counter, and as such can do nothing but sarcastically and foolishly prescribe to me beliefs that fit your image of those that disagree with you-- narrow-minded, unreasonable bigots. John Knowles had a great quote about reliance on sarcasm as a rejoinder. ------------------ He's a center! He's a guard! He's seven feet of unbridled talent. He slices, dices, and can even cut through a TIN CAN! He's Kelvin Cato, and he can be yours for a low low price!
BK: It appears to that you've got me all figured out. I never called you a bigot, nor did I imply it! Please give me an example of where I called you a bigot. My post was an attempt to convey the extent of Black History covered thoughout my public education. I guess I was just "foolish" to expect you to get that. Then again my original post was "a joke" anyway. So yuck it up. Far be it for me to deny you of your entertainment. ------------------ - hoopjunkie "when you come in da HOOD... things change."
John Rocket: I would be interested to read your paper and hear about the result. I am assuming this is college? I have read Zinn several times (as you probably could tell) and the other I have read snippets. What is more fun is to go for the primary sources themselves - always fascinating. I wanted to add that I was once taught (elementary, I think) that thanksgiving was so great because it was when the pilgrims saved the indians from starvation by providing a feast for them. Ha - even then, I knew that there was something wrong with that. The school was also told one day (by the principal) how gret Cinco de Mayo was. And that our teachers should all discuss who he was with their class. Aren't public schools the best? Oh yeah - BK ------------------ rimbaud post-a-thon 2000
After returning from a school exchange visit, out English teacher heavily complained about the pupil´s knowledge over there. For example, they asked him questions like "Do you live in West or East Germany" and "What´s "Die Mauer" like for you". Obviously, they didn´t know that German had been reunified. According to my teacher, some of the pupils even failed to show him America on a map...that really shocked us... ------------------ What do you expect from someone who beats up his fiancee?
Well it's good to hear that. Even though I never said that this was your belief. That's myopic. My post was in a reference to the public schools that I attended, only. Nothing personal. ------------------ - hoopjunkie "when you come in da HOOD... things change."
On Columbus: Yes, the Vikings arrived on the continent way before Columbus did. And yes, there were already many, many Native Americans (all fully conscious and whatnot) already living on the continent. So Columbus did not discover America in that sense. But that isn't why they teach that. They say Columbus' arrival was the discovery because the Viking arrival had no impact on Europe or the world and a very small impact in America itself. The arrival of Native Americans was a much bigger deal than that of the Vikings and needs to be recognized. It had a huge impact on America (obviously). But it had no impact on Europe and the rest of the world. Columbus' discovery opened the age of imperialism, grossly enriched Europe and profoundly impacted the Americas and the whole world. You don't have to use the word 'discover' if you don't want, but recognize that when he went to America and back, it changed the whole world. Don't marginalize the event because he was evil, or because Ericson beat him to it. ------------------
JuanValdez, Yes, since you put it in that context, I have to agree. But I think the issue is the fact that we have been taught one "history", without a true overview of our past. Another one is the impact of the black cowboy in Texas and their influence on Texas history (which has been either ignored or swept under the rug). Also the impact of the black soldiers that fought for the north and south during the civil war. Anyone ever really hear about them? ------------------ [This message has been edited by mc mark (edited May 11, 2000).]
McMark: I heard about the black soldiers in the Civil War but only because I saw "Glory". ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
mc Mark, I offered a reminder of the significance of Columbus because I don't want anyone to err too far in the opposite direction. While it is not good to forget important people because they are black, it is equally bad to forget important people just because they are white. ------------------
Who else but a bigot would think this-- that one contrived month of television specials and McDonald's promotions is a sufficient method of educating our children as to the contributions Black Americans have made...? I sure don't. ------------------ He's a center! He's a guard! He's seven feet of unbridled talent. He slices, dices, and can even cut through a TIN CAN! He's Kelvin Cato, and he can be yours for a low low price!
