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Don't the Rockets need swingman depth (Dragic?) more than another PF???

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by allaroundplayer, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. allaroundplayer

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    The talk of trading Asik for a PF started BEFORE we knew Casspi was pretty good.

    Jones now looks like a quality player & Parsons plays there too.

    I don't foresee the Rockets beating the Clippers or Warriors in the playoffs without improving their wing / perimeter player depth. Garcia is going to be exposed for sure, if that hasn't happened already.

    I think Morey thought about beating the Spurs when he assembled this team. If anybody listened to Spurs fan Steve Kerr the past two TNT Rocket's games broadcasts, he couldn't stop saying negative things about the twin towers (how Asik doesn't fit, trading him, etc.).

    I think he is genuinely scared the Rockets will beat his Spurs in the playoffs.

    Make no mistake. The Spurs WOULD LOVE IT if the Rockets traded Asik. (They are still the #1 team in the West until somebody beats them).

    That is the only way to beat the Spurs, by negating their inside scoring & rebounding. (Their collection of perimeter players is better than anybody so I don't think you can expect to beat them that way). The Rockets can do that if they keep Asik. The preseason game showed the twin towers can play effectively against Duncan & Splitter. I think OKC can also really hurt the Rockets with Ibaka, Collison, Adams & Perkins, if the Rockets traded Asik.

    Why? Dwight's interior defense can be pourous and sieve-like. Morey and McHale know that. I don't think we should be misled by shot blocks. McHale said in the Sixers game, 12 times in their half-court defense they drove to the basket from beyond the 3-point line for layups. That doesn't happen if Asik plays more than 4 minutes. Asik is more of a physical presence, takes no plays off & takes pride in his "goalie" responsibilities, unlike Dwight who doesn't give 50% of the effort on that end that Asik gave last season imo.

    So, I hope the Rockets keep Asik because interior defense is potentially a huge weakness on the team without him & this need is so difficult to fill. They need to figure out some way to make it work. If Lin can get plenty of minutes off the bench, why can't Asik? (D-Mo should start. That will improve the offense). I think they are crazy to trade Asik because he already has shown his ability to supply an irreplaceable and invaluable strength essential for team success.

    I hope they are just placating his request engaging in discussions with other teams & keep their price too high for anything to happen, but if Asik is traded, I don't agree with adding another PF. Looking at the competition, the Rockets need to get the best swing man. They are not going to be a great defensive team if Asik is traded, so may as well try to emulate Golden State who could be the best team in the West.

    One player who is supposedly available is Dragic. It would have to be a 3-team to trade, but he makes about the same money as Asik. He can play the 2-guard when the Rockets go small. Before you say this is a dumb idea, remember a lot of people were confused why the Warriors signed Igoudala, but that appears to be a brilliant move by them.

    I just don't see how Ilyasova or Anderson improve the Rockets. It will just reduce Jones and / or Casspi's minutes, 2 players that are good contributors so far, & relegate them to become unused, whereas if they trade for a swing man, that player can immediately take the minutes of Garcia, a spot that desperately needs to be upgraded.

    If not Dragic, who is a 1-2 of course, perhaps a player who is a 2-3??????????
     
  2. Wapzoe

    Wapzoe Member

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    I'd rather Ersan defend the 3/4 position than dragic at the 2..

    Remember we have Brewer, he just doesnt get used (and i dont see the point in his signing, playoffs?) for the 2/3/4

    We still need a stretch 4 regardless and Asik wants and deserves to be a starter, wherever that may be
     
  3. Rox23

    Rox23 Member

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    If it was the Rockets decisions I believe they also would choose to keep Asik. He's worth more to the team as a backup center and as PF against playoff teams like OKC, Spurs, Grizzlies, Pacers than anything they could get via trade. However if Asik really, really wants to go and starts creating problems then management may have no choice...
     
  4. MOHRocketeer

    MOHRocketeer Rookie

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    The backcourt is fine. Why bring in Dragic who has the same contract that was rejected a few years ago? When is he gonna play with Harden, Beverley and Lin all deserving playing time? How would he improve the team when the guard position is probably the most solid spot on the team?
     
  5. torocan

    torocan Member

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    Dragic makes no sense unless you move Beverley or Lin.

    Moving Lin is basically a near lateral move in basketball terms, a lose in marketing terms.
    Moving Beverley makes more sense but salaries don't match unless you throw in more players. Possible, but filling the 4 spot is higher priority.

    That said, *if* Morey moved Beverley, then you have a PG Lin and Dragic to play the PG position and swing 1/2 ... though you'd be giving up a defensive wing which isn't ideal either.
     
  6. kuku

    kuku Contributing Member

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    Good analysis, OP!

    I still can't believe McHale is abandoning Twin Tower without knowing the cause.

    1. Twin Tower (TT) worked in the preaseason when our 3's were falling.

    2. TT played exclusively with Beverley, Parsons, and Harden and all of them shot an abysmal of 26% 3's.

    Probable cause #1: It was not TT's job to make 3's. If anything, it was failure of three other perimeter shooters. Imagine Bev, Parson, and Harden all were making 3's at a high clip, and what different outcome would that be?

    I think after 7-8 games, TT was among the top two-man lineups in the second halves. So it was actually working in the regular season BUT only half the time.

    Probable cause #2: lack of pre-game preparation or excellent half time adjustment, whichever you look at.

    Statistically, Asik is our best player for the second halves. His Net Rating is outstanding at +15.3 (click).

    Asik is a better man-to-man defender than Dwight. He was the key to our win against Aldridge and Blazers. Dwight does NOT like to play outside the paint! Unlike Dwight, Asik will play all the way to the arc. Hawes kept making outside shots, why not playing Asik when Dwight was getting burned?

    The rule of thumb is this: When you are the better team, make others adjust to you; you don't adjust to others! Why adjust to opposition strength? Our biggest advantage was our size, USE IT!

    I also agree with OP that Dwight does not give 100% effort on all plays. Remember when he 'promised' that he would get 30 rebounds, even with Asik's 14, he still tied his career best with 26. Think about that...he fully controls his effort on the court. My question is this:

    Why can't he bring the same season-opener effort for EVERY SINGLE game?
     
  7. keldraco

    keldraco Member

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    TT are great in paint protection which means opponenst will have to find a way to score at the perimeter. Bev and parsons shouldn't have any problem but harden...If we cant lose harden, it mean we have to give up TT.
     
  8. Ming The King

    Ming The King Member

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    TT was the best situation to beat teams like Memphis and The Spurs.
    I don't see Illyasova guarding Duncan or Randolph.
    That 1 important argument to like LMA.
     
  9. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    No, it's not. Dragic & Lin may be similiar. While Lin is the better scorer, they're not the same. The reasons not start Lin wouldn't apply.

    It's not only because of an ill fit with Harden, but Dwight too.

    With Harden there are the well known problems on both ends of the court. Mostly because Lin needs the ball in his hands to be effective, as we've seen. Dragic can play off the ball. The Bledsoe-Dragic backcourt is working well and that should translate in a Harden tandem.

    Dragic sharing the PG position with Bev could possibly work well too. In McHale's first year, the Rockets were 3rd in the league at stopping opponents' 3P shots. In that year Lowry & Dragic split the starter PG role at around 60-40.

    Now the fit with Dwight, not mentioned as much as Harden's, but maybe it should be? Simply Howards fouls a lot. He's alway been like that. Big need to be protected, the PG has to stay with his man, stop the dribble penetration. All NBA coaches talk about stopping dribble penetration. It's like a mantra.

    Nothing good happens when a small guy with a head full of steam goes at a big. It's just like when the Rockets needed that trade for David Wesley to help Yao and save their season.

    Dragic & Lin aren't that dissimiliar on D but it's Dragic's lateral speed which Lin doesn't have, allows him to stick to his man He's even able to recover, ie get back on his man when he goes under the screen. Again similiar, but not the same result.

    Also Dragic's contract will be easier to trade in free agency.

    What would be interesting in dealing with the Suns is somehow snaring Miles Plumlee and one of their four 2014 picks.

    It's all about asset accumulation. Trading for Aldridge is only a matter of time. I can feel it.
     
  10. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Iggy is also a LOCK DOWN PERIMETER DEFENDER. Something Dragic is not and that's what the Rockets need... The offense is fine with James and Jermey but they need a defender out there with them. If you bring in Dragic _ same situation.
     
  11. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    The Rockets were 3rd in the league in stopping oppenents' 3P shots in McHales first year here.

    Dragic has the lateral quickness to stick with his man.
     
  12. conquistador#11

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    not surprise by horoos of the board. Lin is here, deal with it.

    Mchale is not the owner and the Gm of the Rockets.


    "it took me the longest time to get your name right it ends with an itch sound la la la la "

    i'm not a fan of our coach but what can I do? Just to accept he is here and hope he eventually learns from the mistakes and soon, win it all.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Parsons was a much better defender his rookie year. He was a dog on defense _ now he's a mut.

    And who are you saying the Rockets should trade for Dragic...???
     
  14. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    Another YOf turned LOF onto my ignore list.

    Sometimes it's about the combinations.
     
  15. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Yeap. The same combinations they were getting beat down with by the end of the season when making the playoffs was on the line (I think by a couple of teams under .500). I won't argue if Goran is better with Harden over Lin. He is the better defensively. But I'll take Jermey. Anybody who can step out there and give me 30 is good with me. And plus Isaiah is off to a hot start in the D-League so Beverley better step his game up. The point guard position is not an issue. And if Morey didn't won't to sign Goran for that contract as a free agent _ I seriously doubt he'll trade for it. That's non productive.
     
  16. DraftBoy10

    DraftBoy10 Member

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    If/when we trade Asik, we need a 3rd best player. In fighting with Lin, and Parsons, at PF or on the wings.

    So our end of game lineup can be Dwight- Parsons or PF- Parsons or Swing- Harden- Lin or Bev.

    Our end of game lineup counts, TJones can start. Defensively, he's actually quite good. Offensively, he's progressing. Casspi is not an end of game player. He's a 20mpg reserve, not the 6th man that will be the 5th starter in the lineup.
     
  17. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    No. The Rockets need a legit starting PF more than anything else at the moment. We have Brooks and Brewer if we need help at the 1-3.
     
  18. DraftBoy10

    DraftBoy10 Member

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    Who was confused why the Warriors got Iguodala?

    He's probably their best defender, 2nd best playmaker, and an excellent teammate. He adds to that team immensely.
     
  19. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    Two things killed them. Lowry coming back from injury and the frontcourt problems.

    Lowry wasn't match fit, ready to play at all. Remember, he had a a long lay off, but the Rockets had to give him quality minutes, if they were to have any hope if they made the playoffs. He was also a little bit sulky about playing off the bench.

    The front court was horrendous on defense and kind of imploded at seasons end. McHale decided to ride Camby but he was so banged up at the end but his appendages were hanging by the skin. Both Dalembert & Camby were so ineffective at defending against the PnR the Rockets best defensive numbers came when Scola was at the 5. Bad things happen with that option.

    Probably should have stuck with Dalembert & Scola as they were starting to gel at that point but I think there some rumors about behind the scenes problems that finally blew up with Dalembert and gave Camby the starting role.
     
  20. Remii

    Remii Member

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    TJ has been doing darn good for his first few starts. Rebounding, playing defense, he's a certified shot blocker, and he can knock down the 3. I think he just needs more time to get comfortable and build his confidence. I think the Rockets could use a strong perimeter defender who can play the 2-3 and isn't a liability on the offensive end. I like Casspi and Garcia but they are not lock down defenders and neither is Parsons. The Rockets perimeter defense is a bigger issue than the 4 spot IMO.
     

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