1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Donald Trump's NATO comments are the scariest thing he's said

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by sirbaihu, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,897
  2. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    40,762
    Likes Received:
    6,390
    They are scary. They show he doesn't have the most basic idea of how treaties work, how alliances work, and why they important and mutually beneficial.

    He isn't prepared in any possible way.

    I don't know if it's more scary than he'll be putting our defense forces in the position of disobeying orders because he plans on making war crimes part of his foreign policy.
     
  3. TheresTheDagger

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,742
    Likes Received:
    5,615
    On the face of it, Trump's comments are extremely alarming. I wonder though...

    In one of the articles you linked (The Bloomberg one) I copy/pasted the following:

    Even Obama has shared his frustration that we are shouldering the vast majority of the economic and military burden for NATO and have for decades. I think Trumps comments were meant to put the members on notice: The free ride is over.

    Whether you believe Trump is serious in his statements or not, those "non paying NATO members" have taken money out of our wallets, watched while our American men and women fought and died in the middle east to protect their economies while not living up to THEIR OWN obligations to NATO.

    Having said that, using NATO Article 5 commitment as the opening salvo in an obviously vital negotiation is massively destabilizing. I think he better reign back those comments simply to comfort everyone the USA will be there when the chips are down.

    Bottom line...this is Trump using "The Art of the Deal" on a GeoPolitical stage. Is he out of his depth? The american voters better get educated quick and make a decision. Political poker with global security stakes is pretty damn serious.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    16,523
    Likes Received:
    1,394
    I don't think there is any mechanism that allows the Executive to invalidate treaties unilaterally. Just more inflamatory BS to fire up the brainless.

    Though in looking it's actually and unresolved issue:

    Presently, there is no official Supreme Court ruling on whether the President has the power to break a treaty without the approval of Congress, and the courts also declined to interfere when President George W. Bush unilaterally withdrew the United States from the ABM Treaty in 2002, six months after giving the required notice of intent

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Clause
     
    #4 Dubious, Jul 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  5. CometsWin

    CometsWin Imperial cereal killer
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    25,624
    Likes Received:
    7,577
    This is a good example of why running a government like a business is a bad idea. Using the press to threaten financial conditions on upholding a security framework that the US has championed for decades is crazy dangerous. The strength of NATO deters war. If you have issues with financial commitments, you do them in private with NATO members, not in a sit down with the New York Times.
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld ಠ_ರೃ
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    41,739
    Likes Received:
    6,273
    Agreed 100 %.
     
  7. TheresTheDagger

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,742
    Likes Received:
    5,615
    I think putting the transcript of the salient portion of the actual interview is important.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/us/politics/donald-trump-foreign-policy-interview.html

     
    1 person likes this.
  8. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    27,106
    Likes Received:
    12,982
    No, as Ottomaton put in another thread, you want Putin to know EXACTLY what you would do. That's what keeps war from starting. Confusion about that encourages reckless, point-of-no-return acts. "Well, maybe America won't care..."
     
  9. TheresTheDagger

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,742
    Likes Received:
    5,615
    You mean like a Red Line in Syria?

    Sorry...I actually agree with you (for the most part) but I couldn't resist. ;)
     
  10. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    27,106
    Likes Received:
    12,982
    No problem and great point! We are still agreeing.
     
  11. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    26,377
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    The guy simply is not fit for this office.
     
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    50,810
    Likes Received:
    11,095
    Just another stupid comment in a long history of stupid comments. How anyone could legitimate support Trump is beyond my comprehension. I don't care what your political ideology, Trump is unacceptable.
     
  13. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,897
    What others are saying:

    Retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark: “So, when Mr. Trump says he'll only consider action, he is joining a long list of failed statesmen and leaders from decades ago, whose ‎hesitancy, wavering and lack of resolve — for whatever reason — in the face of adversity paved the path to disastrous war.”

    Retired Navy Adm. James Stavridis: "Trump on NATO: deeply dangerous will dismay our closest Allies but great cheer in Kremlin: I can hear Vladimir Putin chortling from here."

    Czech Prime Minister Bohuslav Sobotka: "NATO is the basis for our security. I expect that also in the United States, whoever wins the presidential election, I hope the United States will remain a solid NATO partner.”

    George W. Bush’s head of policy planning at the State Department, Richard Haass: “[Questions] of U.S. reliability could trigger more conflict, appeasement, [and/or] more proliferation as allies seek self-reliance.”

    Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg: ‎”Solidarity among Allies is a key value for NATO. This is good for European security and good for US security.”

    Former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen: “Here we have the NATO alliance that has just finished a meeting recently in Warsaw, pledging solidarity, increasing budgets, determined to fight ISIL and other activities directed against us, and I think any statement that would weaken that or undermine it is not in our interests."

    Lindsey Graham: “Statements like these make the world more dangerous and the United States less safe. I can only imagine how our allies in NATO, particularly the Balkan states, must feel after reading these comments from Mr. Trump. I’m 100 percent certain how Russian President Putin feels — he’s a very happy man."

    Quotes from history:

    * Richard Nixon, Naples, 1970: “What we must realize is that in a period of instability, of uncertainty, and of possible lack of confidence, that what is needed is an institution that people can believe in, an institution that is strong, an institution that is stable, that men and women can hang onto; and NATO is such an institution.”
    * Ronald Reagan, radio address, 1988: “I found this week in Brussels what the Atlantic alliance has demonstrated now for 40 years: that a peace built on strength can and will endure.”
    * George H.W. Bush, 1990, London: “Some ask if NATO is still necessary, and our answer is unequivocally yes, because free nations must stand together in an uncertain world.”
    * George W. Bush, 2005, Brussels: “The relationship between the United States and Europe is a vital relationship, a necessary relationship, an important relationship and our relationship within NATO is the cornerstone of that relationship.”

    [these quotes were excerpted from the links in OP]
     
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    107,588
    Likes Received:
    10,608
    Can we all agree that Trump is an idiot?

    DD
     
  15. shorerider

    shorerider Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2003
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    142
    I'm scratching my head. Aren't these the same people whose laundry list of policy decisions of the last x number decades have gotten us into the current state of affairs? Why should anyone care what they think? They're responsible for this current mess and subsequently the rise of Trump!

    FYI - An excellent summary as to how we've gotten into this mess:

    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/no-donald-its-not-a-world-war/
     
    2 people like this.
  16. BMoney

    BMoney Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,035
    Likes Received:
    4,700
    Putin's candidate.
     
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    27,106
    Likes Received:
    12,982
    Mess? Compared to World War II, or God forbid, III?

    In terms of human history, we are at an apex of unprecedented peace. Yes, what conflicts there are get broadcast 24/7 to our living rooms and computers.

    But if you think world war would be preferable to "this current mess," I guess that simplifies our dialogue... a lot.
     
  18. hitman1900

    hitman1900 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,142
    Likes Received:
    87
    He's not fit for any political office in the United States, let alone the freakin' presidency.
     
  19. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    11,354
    Likes Received:
    5,415
    I actually don't have any issues with what he said. Since when do allies get a free ride and solidarity a one-way street. Sure I think NATO is important and serves a purpose but why aren't those other members being attacked for not treating NATO serious enough to pay their share? So we have to hold up our end of the agreement to defend others but other NATO members don't hold up their end of the agreement to pay? That doesn't sound like an alliance to me.
     
  20. Scarface281

    Scarface281 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,188
    Likes Received:
    963
    Also is Germany and Japan not advanced enough now not to want to start another world war? Why are some people acting like those countries will start dropping bombs?
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now