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Do you trust Dallas Keuchel?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Snow Villiers, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Buck Turgidson

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    Of course he won't be on this team next year.

    I'd like them to fix him so he can be a good Astro for the rest of the season.

    I've heard "send him to AAA" and "send him to the bullpen" and "trade him" and those things just won't happen for differing reasons.
     
  2. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    I didn't get to watch the game yesterday so I recorded it. I went back and watched all 4 plus innings Keuchel pitched.

    He gave up 3 to 5 hits that "beat the shift".

    1. In the 2nd inning Odor hit a ground ball to the left side. Bregman was close but couldn't get it. This one is iffy and one of the hits as to why I said 3 to 5 above. Bregman was positioned fairly close to where the ball went. So hard to call it a true shift beating hit. If Marwin was playing normally at SS I don't know if he could have gotten the ball in the hole and thrown out Odor either.

    2. Also in the 2nd inning, Guzman clearly beat the shift. Bregman was basically playing SS and the soft ground ball went right to where a 3rd baseman would have normally been stationed.

    3. In the 3rd inning Kiner-Falefa hit a ground ball to 2nd base side. At the time a runner was on first and Altuve was playing pretty far up the middle. So this one is iffy. Was it true shift or shading to 2nd base to cover on a steal/force out? I am going to say a shift beater because Altuve was pretty close to 2nd. It was more than just shading towards 2nd.

    4. Same thing in the 4th inning. Beltre hit a ball to normal positioning of a 2nd baseman. Altuve was playing more up the middle with a runner on 1st. So was it shift or normal shading towards 2nd with a runner on? Again, I will say it beat the shift. Altuve was close to 2nd.

    5. In the 5th inning Odor hit a ball right to where the SS is normally playing. Marwin was playing up the middle and couldn't get back in time. However, a runner was on 2nd. This one I would say had more to do with Marwin covering 2nd for a pick off than a true shift beating play.

    Now what I find more interesting than the 5 plays above... I did not see ONE time where the batter hit the ball into the shift. In other words, the infield shift for sure hurt Keuchel, and not ONE time did it help him.

    Also, Keuchel saved himself from this being even worse. He had 3 or 4 really good plays where he fielded the ball on tough plays and made the out.
     
  3. Buck Turgidson

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    This is the other thing about shifting with Keuchel. You're just creating holes where holes would not normally be, and you've got the best pitcher's glove right in the middle.

    Nice job on the writeup. I think I remember agreeing with you on most of almost most of those. I'd have to go back and look, honestly. The Odor and the Guzman were the 2 most egregious and the 2 that really hurt him early.

    How much did they shift in his CY year or early last year (when he was 8-0, 2.8?) as opposed to this one?
     
  4. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    A solid DL trip sounds good right now.

    Take a few weeks off and fix yourself mechanically.

    I would guess that his hand path on off speed is no where near his fastballs release point.

    The reason I say that, is guys are sitting on his off speed like never before. He is clearly tipping pitches right now.
     
  5. Major

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    I think it makes sense. The Astros should have data on whether the shift has specifically helped or hurt when he has pitched - I'd be curious to see what that data shows.
     
  6. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    I'm going to change my analysis. I first watched the Rangers broadcast and now watched those plays on the Astros broadcast. All 5 of those plays beat the shift.

    The 2nd inning one with Odor was closer to 3rd base than I originally thought. Bregman would have gotten that ball and Marwin would not have been a factor. it was too close to 3rd base. Also, the 5th inning one with Marwin playing up the middle.... normally you will see the SS bounce back closer to normal SS positioning when the pitch is made after covering 2nd for a pick off. Marwin didn't bounce towards SS. He bounced straight back. He was playing the shift up the middle.

    Not sure how much we shifted last year. I think it is a combination. Keuchel is pitching worse and the shift isn't helping either
     
  7. Buck Turgidson

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    I dunno about tipping anything, he just has lost his slider and can't pinpoint his fastball. We'll see what he does next.
     
  8. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    13 hits in 6 innings.

    5-6 ERA in his last 6 starts.

    He is hurt or his mechanics are way off(tipping). Just my opinion.
     
  9. marks0223

    marks0223 Astros 2017 Champions
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  10. Buck Turgidson

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    Tipping pitches and having mechanical issues are 2 whoooly different things.

    Mechanically: it could be anything from his setup to his leg drive to his plant to his grip to his wrist pronation to his release point to his follow through to his landing point to his head to his lead shoulder to any number or combination of things....that's why Strom and Hinch make the big bucks.
     
  11. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    His left eyelid is jammed
     
    RockFanFirst likes this.
  12. RockFanFirst

    RockFanFirst Member

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    For DK's next start, the fielders should play straight up for the first 3 innings to see if his results are any different. It'd be interesting to see how that shakes out.

    He clearly had some bad luck yesterday. But overall this year, he's been fair-to-crappy so it's not like all of a sudden, it's "because of the shift!", or "my catcher can't conceal signs!".
     
  13. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    True, but to be more specific.

    Most mechanical issues revolve around arm slots and release points at this level of play.
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    Right. Like I said it could be any one or a combo of those things. Or he could be hurt. Or he could be crazy.

    I really like @RockFanFirst 's idea.
     
  15. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    LOL and you know that strategy would entail multiple hits in the areas shifts would have stopped the hit.
     
  16. Buck Turgidson

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    The rose is not in the front?

    It would shut him up. Maybe. At least give him something else to think about.
     
  17. RockFanFirst

    RockFanFirst Member

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    Well, I guess we'd know then, wouldn't we?
     
  18. bobrek

    bobrek Proud Mofo
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    So.....why didn’t Keuchel have any problems with the shifting in April and May of last year?
     
  19. RockFanFirst

    RockFanFirst Member

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    Because McCann caught his games and didn't give the signs to the hitters
     
  20. bobrek

    bobrek Proud Mofo
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    You may be on to something. McCann caught every single game he pitched except for a 3-1 victory over the As that Stassi caught.
     
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