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Do you trust Dallas Keuchel?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Snow Villiers, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member
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    This new strategery of his, blaming everyone but himself, isn’t working out too well.
     
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  2. chievous minniefield

    chievous minniefield Contributing Member

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    Dallas showed himself last July 31st. He is a mental loser. GFR.
     
  3. SemisolidSnake

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    *missed game driving home from Ft. Worth*
    *looks at pitching box score*
    *shudders*

    That said, he's not going to be demoted in any way while he's healthy. Not down in the rotation, not to the bullpen, and certainly not down to the minors. And, yes, it has everything to do with appearances, politics, past performance, reputation, stature, whatever. The point is it's not about logic, whoever's and whatever logic that may be, and that's just something we have to accept.

    Mike Stanton was talking about something that I thought made a lot of sense with Marisnick going down to AAA this year: it's REALLY hard to get yourself back on track while you're still in the thick of things being expected to perform at a major-league level while struggling. And I think that's probably the case with Keuchel. He could probably use some time away from all the pressure to work out whatever kinks he's got going on. But that will never happen, and it's unfortunate.
     
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  4. Major

    Major Member
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    As of a couple of days ago, the Astros were the best in baseball in runs prevented by shifts. Only 3 teams were negative in total (Philly, Dodgers, and one other team). It seems unlikely anything changed in that regard the last few days.
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    He can be skipped or pushed back a start with off days. It’s not that complicated.

    It will take care of itself if he continues to give up 5 ER’s per start. Even he knows that sitting, and not pitching bad (or disclosing a minor injury), will make him more money than pitching bad healthy.
     
  6. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    More than once, DK has pitched poorly and it turned out he was playing hurt. So its easy to think that is what is going on right now. That scenario is actually preferable to him being fine physically and pitching poorly in that there is clearly something to point to that can be fixed.
     
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  7. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    Dallas Keuchel Shoulder injury is a concern, he can be out for the season if Management don't Step in and Force him on the DL. Offseason Big Contract By Scott Boras, Be Damn. Dallas is hurting the team winning games, Dallas pitching injured can be viewed as selfish especially not giving other Starters a Chance, not telling the team, other pitchers are ready to step in , Peacock, McHugh, I really believe that Keuchel thinks he is going to lose his job Starting and Starting in the Postseason with a 4 man rotation, Verlander, Cole, Morton, McCullers are better than Keuchel, His ego is bruised big time.
     
    #67 rockets1995, Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  8. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    Dallas Keuchel Pitching scared against the Dodgers Kershaw, really exposed his himself as a player. Karma really got Dallas Keuchel, Marwin Gonzalez when they hired Scott Boras
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I'm Scared Of Where This Thread Is Now Going.
     
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  10. Cold Hard

    Cold Hard Member
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    I think it's time for someone like Altuve to have a serious heart-to-heart chat with Keuchel, if he hasn't done so already. I don't like Dallas's tone and I think some of the stuff he's saying publicly should've been kept behind closed doors. I haven't been a fan of his attitude for the past few years.

    I think it's pretty likely that this will be Keuchel's last season as an Astro.
     
  11. bobrek

    bobrek Proud Mofo
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    I posted an article yesterday. Prior to yesterday's game, the Astros had saved 17 runs via the shift which led the major leagues. Pitchers tend to remember and react to the balls that get through a shift. They don't seem to remember the ones that the shift saved. So many times, balls are hit directly over second base only to turn into outs.

    It would be interesting to see the stats with each individual pitcher. Since Keuchel tends to throw soft and hit the corners, hitters can 'place' the ball better.
     
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  12. Baseballa

    Baseballa Member

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    I can't remember something I've been more sure about.
     
  13. Buck Turgidson

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    I mentioned during the game yesterday that I wish they would just abandon the shift when he pitches, except in very specific situations.

    He depends on getting contact on the ground, yet he cannot "pitch to the shift", because his whole m.o. is keeping the ball down and spreading it from corner to corner. He can't go just inside or just outside, he *has* to pitch all over the zone to keep guys honest, because that's what his stuff dictates.

    We saw this backfire several times yesterday. Curious to see what yall think.

    @bobrek @Nick @Major
     
  14. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    But doesn't the logic behind shifting take all of this into account? Especially guys keeping the ball down. I've never seen it mentioned that ground ball pitchers are better served by "traditional" positioning vs. other pitchers.

    The data suggests "this" is where the batter hits it the vast majority of the time (which includes ground balls), and thus the team incorporates that data to make the decision to shift.

    Pretty certain that Dallas has benefitted from the shift much more throughout his career vs. gotten burned by it. Like fans here, pitchers only seem to remember the times where the shift didn't work.

    Also, there were genuine hits yesterday... not a bunch of bad luck BABIP stuff. If Keuchel doesn't think they were seeing the ball well, hitting the ball well, or that his location wasn't off... I'm not sure if he's of the right mindset to turn this around. Is he going to have to hit true rock-bottom to accept that he's got to be better? We shall see.
     
  15. Buck Turgidson

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    When he throws an outside changeup, perfectly, and the guy just slaps it to 3B (but there's no 3Bman there) or when he throws an up and in FB and the guy just has to inside out it because there's nobody there on that side of the IF. There were more examples than that, and not just yesterday.

    What I'm saying is that the shift is good, great even, but the shift just might not work for some pitchers like it works for others, some situations as opposed to others also. We just watched that happen.

    I don't like the idea of being roboticaly tied to it. And I really don't like as a given when Keuchel is pitching. That's all I'm saying.
     
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  16. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I'm sure as more and more new data unfurls, they develop newer and newer strategies/shift options. None of this stuff is set, or "robotically applied".

    For all we know, they may shift differently when Keuchel pitches, based on how specific batters have fared against him in the past, vs. what they do for other members of the pitching staff.

    As far as Keuchel's stuff goes... he's pretty much abandoned the slider for a pretty poor cutter. He's basically putting the ball on a tee if he gets behind in the count (or gives up a walk). His best current pitch, the changeup, isn't of a swing/miss variety... so yes, has to be perfectly placed every time.

    And again, while the shift may have led to some base-runners getting on... it was not the #1 reason he sucked yesterday, and he himself should know that.

    Also, doesn't seem like the motto of the shift is to pitch to it (guys throw low/outside when defense is playing to pull)... and if a batter overly commits to try and beat the shift, they very well might (with less overall expected slugging %), or they may more easily get themselves out by swiping unorthodoxly.
     
  17. Buck Turgidson

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    Sparky said on the radio yesterday the the BA against his "slider" (which is actually acting like a curve/slurve) is well over .300
     
  18. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Its clearly not the same. No late break. Comes out of the hand loopy. No command on it.

    Sparky said its largely mechanical, and basically is one less effective pitch he has to throw now, which has clearly impacts his overall effectiveness.
     
  19. Buck Turgidson

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    This is why I'm a huge fan of the 10-day DL.
     
  20. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    I was never a fan of Keuchel. He always mouthed off too much for my liking even when he was dominant.

    Now he just looks like a jerk off as he is getting tagged each outing.

    I want nothing to do with retaining him moving forward. I would hope for a few good starts coming in to the trade deadline and see what you can for him from an NL team.

    He doesn't have the control he once had and that is the main issue.
     
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