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Do you trust Dallas Keuchel?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Snow Villiers, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Mr.Pringles

    Mr.Pringles Member

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    Don’t see a point in making a contender stronger, either
     
  2. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member
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    I'd like to think that he's going through a bad stretch. Maybe the team needs to put the right type of pressure on him to make sure he understands that there are other options. McHugh and Peacock are there ready and waiting. Forrest Whitley will be throwing soon and maybe a Cionel Perez pushing to get called up. He needs to realize that he's not that comfortably set in his spot. There's too much talent waiting in the wings to continue allowing the bad performances...especially when the team is struggling a bit.
     
  3. JeeberD

    JeeberD Contributing Member

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    Verlander was a completely different situation. Detroit wasn't contending, Verlander had sucked at the beginning of the year but put it together for a month or two before the trade, and Verlander wasn't a rental.
     
  4. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    I am guessing that no amount of external pressure could equal the pressure he puts on himself, especially in a contract year. Perhaps this is part of the problem. Didn't Morton say making it ok to miss now and again is part of the reason he is pitching better (less pressure on self)?

    Hopefully it is just a bad stretch. It is either this or he is hiding an injury, again.
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Prior to last night's total debacle, he did come in with a respectable 3.65 ERA.

    I feel that's about where he is at this point.... which is still above league average. Anybody expecting Dallas to revert to his Cy Young form is either a blind homer or has no idea what chronic pitching does to one's arm. Granted, its seemingly unfair/unatural that we have a literal freak on our staff (Verlander) that is getting better with age.... but he's an all-time great, first ballot HOFer, for a reason.
     
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  6. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    You could add Morton and Cole to the unnatural list. Wait for larger sample on this.

    In DK's case, I wonder if the ability of the league to adapt (take advantage of) to a pitcher is part of the equation. It may not be a coincidence that the pitchers progressing (Verlander/Cole/Morton) have a similar tool set, and one that differs from DK's significantly. Maybe todays starter cant succeed with location alone, let alone when your location become a bit sporatic.
     
  7. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Those guys don't have nearly the miles on them that Keuchel has. Verlander does have those miles... and is still going strong... hence being unnatural.

    His velocity has actually been better than it was last year. His location/command is bad. Even if he's not getting the call at the bottom of the zone, he's still not hitting his spots as consistently as he used to.

    Command also gets affected with age. The ability to reproduce mechanics and throw the ball exactly where you want to throw it, every single time, deteriorates if your muscles can't withstand the workload it once did.

    We've always know that Dallas with a loss of velocity would suffer. Dallas also with a slight loss of command also suffers. When both go down, he's no longer an MLB pitcher.
     
  8. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    http://www.astroscounty.com/2018/06/wednesday-morning-hot-links.html

    *Keuchel: 6.2IP, 7H/7ER, 3K:1BB, 3HR. Based on Seager's most-opposite field home run, Keuchel thinks he's tipping his pitches:
    That's a pitch I wanted to throw. Either I'm tipping for they're getting signs from [Stassi] or something because [Seager] doesn't normally do that. You've got to tip your cap to him because it's a Major League swing. I felt like there was no way seven runs were on the board with the way I felt.
     
  9. lnchan

    lnchan Member
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    Verlander may need this year and one more strong year to be bona fide, no-doubter hall of famer... his 2013-2015 hurts his case...

    Hall of Fame Statistics

    Black Ink
    Pitching - 58 (20), Average HOFer ≈ 40
    Gray Ink
    Pitching - 200 (40), Average HOFer ≈ 185
    Hall of Fame Monitor
    Pitching - 138 (51), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
    Hall of Fame Standards
    Pitching - 43 (63), Average HOFer ≈ 50
    JAWS
    Starting Pitcher (65th):
    60.7 career WAR / 44.2 7yr-peak WAR / 52.5 JAWS
    Average HOF P (out of 63):
    73.4 career WAR / 50.1 7yr-peak WAR / 61.8 JAWS
     
  10. SemisolidSnake

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    Yeah, my thoughts exactly. In fact, I just said those exact thoughts in the game thread last night. :)

    He definitely has the riskiest pitching style of the five starters. I would also not be surprised if he's the most emotional of the five and most prone to making mistakes or altering his approach based on whether he has a lead or not. That's more my speculation that getting your pitcher a lead helps them pitch better and with more confidence in a game.

    There are some concerning patterns of giving up runs this year, but I don't know if he's had a permanent drop in effectiveness. Batters may also be sizing him up better this year. He's been around for a while.

    There's absolutely no way a team would even think about trading their number 2 starter and second Cy Young winner, regardless of performance this year, in the middle of a championship defense season. That would be insanely cutthroat and completely demoralizing to the team; Dallas would have to suggest it himself for it to even be a consideration.

    That said, my feeling this season has been pretty strong that he's making a great case for not being on our roster next year when he hits free agency with his underwhelming performance. This rotation is already borderline legendary, and he would command a high price, and that money could used to build a solid bullpen which is the biggest need of the team.
     
  11. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Keuchel 1065 career innings
    Morton 1112 career innings
    Cole 864 career innings

    Not sure how to measure baseball miles but.....
     
  12. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member

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    It seems to me that Dallas is the one pitcher on this staff that the umpire calling the balls and strikes, is most effected by. If he doesn't get the outside and low pich, he has to move it over the plate. And then, well we have results like last night.
     
  13. lnchan

    lnchan Member
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  14. lnchan

    lnchan Member
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    Hoping that Paul Nauert is not behind the plate as much as Scott Foster reffing a Rockets game...

    Keuchel v Nauert
    1-3, 7.91 ERA, 19.1 IP, 14 BB
     
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  15. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Looking more at how many 200 inning years these guys had. Keuchel hasn't been the same since the marathon 2015.
     
  16. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

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    I don't trust anything with "Dallas" in it
     
  17. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    Even if he feels like Stassi might be tipping pitches, that's not something you say to the public. You work it out in the clubhouse, and move on.
     
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  18. arkoe

    arkoe (ง'̀-'́)ง
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    He's Altuve's favorite teammate, so he's ok with me.
     
  19. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    Kuechel will be fine. He's going through a funk, obviously. Good amount of bad luck exacerbating the issue...houston fans never seem to disappoint when it comes to overreacting. Let's see if he's still struggling in late July to have the "do you trust DK" conversation. Sheesh
     
  20. Hustle Town

    Hustle Town Contributing Member

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    No, I don't trust Dallas Keuchel. An LA friend couldn't believe that I was confident the Astros wouldn't re-up DK at the end of 2018.
     
    #40 Hustle Town, Jun 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
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