Do you think the Texans fans' not wanting another Carr in Houston was a huge mistake?

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by deb4rockets, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. texian

    texian Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    182
    What would he base that decision on?

    Carr was the only QB he didn't do extensive work on. 15 mins at the Combine, then nothing else. Carr was at least a top 5 QB in 2014.

    Hell, he went to Manziel's "Johnny Day" and he wasn't ever going to green light that idiot.
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    43,310
    Likes Received:
    3,552
    I meant Jimmy G.
     
  3. houstonstime

    houstonstime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    626
    Honestly, I bet they thought they could get XSF AND Jimmy G. They were real close, but the pats came ahead of them.. No one else thought Jimmy was worth an early 2nd round pick or the Pats would have moved up earlier. Its real hindsight when you say XSF over Jimmy when he was picked at the end of the 2nd. Can you imagine everyone saying what a reach he was at Rd2Pk1?!
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    43,310
    Likes Received:
    3,552
    Yes, all fair. We should have traded up in that case, or maybe just didn't think he was worth it until the 3rd round.

    And he might not be. Hasn't proven anything.
     
    houstonstime likes this.
  5. texian

    texian Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    182
    My bad.

    That was Rick's call, and he missed or did the old QB draft dodge again to keep the clock from ticking on his job.
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    43,310
    Likes Received:
    3,552
    Dunno, O'Brien said Rick never picks a guy he doesn't want

    Maybe he had poor Intel tho
     
  7. Jatman20

    Jatman20 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    522
    We shall agree to disagree. Wade Smith tore up his knee in OTA's (August) of 2013/14 season and was
    gone for the year. Ben Jones did a piss poor job filling in. Derek Newton stood up too upright, couldn't
    handle the speed rush & held as a result of that; as well as received illegal procedure calls.

    Unless Rick Smith is psychic (draft before BO'B worked with Newton in OTA's 2014/15) he had no way of knowing
    Ben Jones and Newton would do a better job. History is taught in school to show events that have happeed and for
    people to avoid repeating it. David Carr was sacked 76 times his rookie season. I think you are playing Monday
    morning QB. Hindsight is 20/20. How did you know Ben Jones and Newton would improve so much during the
    offseason? Su'a Filo was drafted to replace Ben Jones because he did so bad. Su'a Filo couldn't cut the mustard
    in 2014/15 (the year Derek Carr was drafted) as a rookie.

    Houston drafted a top 50 QB in David Carr......how did that work out for us? That is what our whole discussion
    has been about. A top draft pick QB running for his life because of poor O-line play (Raiders invested a lot of money
    to protect Derek Carr) or build to top notch O-line and then get a top pick QB. In retrospect the right move in my
    opinion would have been to move up and draft Zach Martin before the Cowboys did.
     
  8. Jatman20

    Jatman20 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    522
  9. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    23,751
    Likes Received:
    8,939
    He scouted Carr; called him one of the most accurate qbs he scout prior to the Oakland game in Mexico last season
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    43,310
    Likes Received:
    3,552
    Jatman20 likes this.
  11. texian

    texian Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    182
    Lol, quite the opposite...

    http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/10...to-choose-between-smith-obrien-as-rift-grows/


    He did not scout him for the purposes of drafting him in 2014.

    He did advance scouting before we played them.
     
  12. texian

    texian Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    182
    I'm play Monday morning GM, and QB is a much bigger priority than a LG. Miles more important. We needed one.

    So you don't draft one because Charley Casserly made the wrong choice in 2002?

    Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Matthew Stafford, Andrew Luck, Derek Carr, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Carson Wentz... all drafted in the top 50 too.
     
  13. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    43,310
    Likes Received:
    3,552
    There is no quote from Obrien in that link.

    He specifically said that Rick never picks a player the coaches don't want in his last interview.

    That's another problem I have with OBrien. He gets his minions to spread lies to help cover his ass
     
  14. Jatman20

    Jatman20 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    522
    1st round QB's: JP Losman (2004), Alex Smith/Jason Campbell (2005), Vince Young/Matt Leinart/Cutler (2006),
    JaMarcus Russell/Brady Quinn (2007), Josh Freeman/Mark Sanchez (2009), *Sam Bradford/Tebow (2010),
    Ponder/Gabbert/Jake Locker (2011), **Tannehill/Weeden/RG3 (2012), ***Geno Smith/EJ Manuel (2013),
    Bridgewater/Manziel/Bortles (2014), ****Goff/Wentz/Paxton Lynch

    *Not sure if Sam Bradford has won anything. He is accurate though.

    **Tannehill hasnt done squat until last year going 10-6; but they played off 6-10 schedule from previous season.
    .....another reason is the Richie Incognito problem caused them major problems with their O-Line. They have
    .....rebuilt it recently. Question is has he developed bad habits....we shall see with him playing off a 10-6 record
    .....from last year. He has the weapons around him.

    ***Geno Smith was 2nd round (but close at 39th pick of the draft)

    ****All probably should have gone in early second round; but desperate teams reached on them. Wentz had
    ......early success on watered down playbook; but then teams figured out what he did best and keyed on them.
    ......Wentz/Goff are better than Watson/Kizer/Mahomes/Trubisky..imo. And next years crop of Luke Falk/Josh Rosen/
    ......Sam Darnold/Chase Litton/Josh Allen are much better than Watson/Kizer/Mahomes/Trubisky. Worth waiting for.

    Everyone here knows now that Carr would be desired on the Texans today. We both agree on that. You and I just
    differ on the severity of the mistake. Seems like you are saying it's one thing as a means of amplifying the
    severity, where I say it a multitude of reasons that went into the decision to pass on Carr and address the O-Line.
    On a scale of 0-10 with 10 being a major crippling error and zero not so much.
    Seems to me like you are putting the severity at around 8. Tell me the number you prefer if not 8.
    While I would probably put it at about 5. Considering everything at the time. QB running for his life every play
    doesn't appeal to me because I lived through those David Carr days. Created happy feet which probably
    had David Carr hearing feet of 300 pound monsters running at him in his sleep.
     
  15. texian

    texian Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    182
    He also said he wishes Brock well and he gets along with Rick. Yeah, not hardly.

    Because O'Brien's all worried about what you think of him? He's Mr. Self-Conscious? He's really worried about how he looks and if the other kids will like him. LOL.

    His minions. Where do you come up with this ****? Rick feeds stories to the media all of the time for his own purposes. He's the PR guy. O'Brien couldn't care less about anything but winning football and his family. He has a general disdain for the media, as taught by Mumbles Belicheck.
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    43,310
    Likes Received:
    3,552
    What stories did Rick feed? Since Obrien got here we've had a steady diet of this crap.

    So when he said Rick never picks he guys the coaches don't want, it wasn't true? I just don't believe that. Rick has zero incentive. If he just gets the guys the coaches wants, then the coaches get fired instead of him.
     
  17. texian

    texian Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    182
    Without a QB you're an also ran in the NFL today. We didn't have one.

    I'd put it at a 9/10 mistake, and that's being generous. X isn't even a top guard. How many times have you heard, "that team is one LG away from winning a ring"?

    You hire a new QB guru head coach and you only give him leftovers. Get the damn QB. If you don't take a chance on one you never find your guy. If you swing and miss, you might lose your job. Rick didn't draft a QB earlier than the tail end of the 4th round for a decade. And we've been to how many SBs?
     
  18. Jatman20

    Jatman20 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    522
    No, nobody says you can't win without that left guard. That is partly because the media is so fixated on that glamour
    position called Quarter Back. Overhyping the QB position is what they (media) do. That sells newspapers or
    internet hits. Fact is very few teams win a championship without good offensive line play.

    Russell Wilson wasn't a top draft pick (3rd round); but a top ranked defense.....with beast mode, Percy Harvin
    creating magic, and Russell Wilson. He only passed for 194.9 yds/game in 2013 when they went to a super bowl
    and for 209.8 yds/game in 2014 for that super bowl run. Trent Dilfer won a super bowl with a Ravens team
    that had a tremendous defense. No one says they wished they drafted Trent Dilfer. It's a team sport
    and it takes a team effort to win. With the Texans Fitzpatrick (206.9) and Hoyer (236.9) had more yds
    per game than Wilsons 2013 year. Max Unger and Okung helped get them to the Super Bowls.
    Seahawks haven't been there since Max Unger was traded for Jimmy Graham in 2015. Same
    quarterback in place.

    Here are QB's that have been traded up for (not a good success rate):

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...und-quarterback-is-generally-a-terrible-idea/

    X Su'a Filo is not very good; but I give the Texans some credit for trying to improve that line of scrimmage.
    Su'a Filo was rated as the 2nd best Guard coming out of college behind Zach Martin. I'm a believer
    in build the car (team) and find the race car driver (QB) when the main components are in place.
    Mainly because "Air" McNair faced that problem.....as well as David Carr.
     
    #198 Jatman20, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  19. texian

    texian Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    182
    Perhaps because it's a QB-driven league?

    So Fitzy and Hoyer are on Russell Wilson's level? C'mon.

    Matt Schaub averaged more yards per game than Wilson in 2013, and Mark Sanchez averaged more yards per game than Wilson in 2014. Better than Wilson? That not the stat you're looking for.

    Trading up in the first for a QB has been a poor proposition. We did it for Deshaun Watson this year.

    But we would not have had to trade up to draft Carr. And he or Jimmy G were second round picks.

    And Greg Robinson and Justin Gilbert and Johnny Football were rated as a first round talents. They were wrong.

    Who would you draft if we could redo the 2014 draft?
     
  20. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    40,779
    Likes Received:
    4,853
    I think the suggestion was less that and more that Russell Wilson hid behind a dominant defense and run game for his early career when the Seahawks were having success. It was downplaying his importance and showcasing the importance of a dominant run game and defense or rather what teams could do with them.
     
    Jatman20 likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page