As the resident ND alum... I think I'd prefer Mahomes (and Watson is my #1). I like DeShone- he looked like a future top 5 pick his first year with Will Fuller. I'm sure Will also bailed him out quite a few teams with his speed. His Brady/Cam comment was stupid. I understand that he was just trying to show confidence himself, but pretty dumb lol. I don't see any comparisons with Brock. Brock is lanky and awkward- Kizer can move within the pocket and is a solid scrambler. I agree with the poster who said hes around a 62% completion percentage - the genius that is Brian Kelly decided to throw the ball 26 times in a Hurricane (NC State). He needs to develop his footwork more, but he's a bright kid who has shown the ability to make big plays in big situations. I wouldn't hate the pick, but you're not getting a return on the investment for 2-3 years -- sounds like a second rounder to me.
Kinzer is not a first round player. That said, the draft is all about value and fit. Kinzer certainly has value depending where you can land him. I'd take Kinzer in a heartbeat in the 2nd round. I just doubt he'll last that long. You can't draft enough QBs. So what, he's confident? Who cares! Sure, he has a lot of flags. With the NFl draft media as intense as it is, every player has drawbacks when you when you nitpick and analyze them. Not everyone is a generational talent. Draft Kinzer if the value is there. It's not like any QB we draft will play this seasons anyways. His physical tools are there. I'd be ecstatic if we could get him in the 2nd, even if we trade up.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...-qbs-kizer-another-notre-dame-bust/100737052/ The latest Fighting Irish signal-caller, the physically imposing Deshone Kizer, is being met with understandable skepticism from NFL teams that admire his talent, question his intangibles and fear he’ll turn out to be the latest flop out of South Bend. “Name me a Notre Dame quarterback lately that’s flourished in the NFL,” an executive in personnel for an NFC team said this month. “Just name one. Oh, Joe Theismann. Yeah, that was recently.” OK, the sarcastic scout did forget about Joe Montana, Notre Dame Class of 1979, winner of four Super Bowls and arguably the greatest quarterback in NFL history. His general point, however, hit the mark. Kizer will become the eighth Golden Domer drafted to play quarterback since Montana was selected by Bill Walsh and the San Francisco 49ers in the third round in 1979. In order, the others were Rusty Lisch, fourth round, 1980; Blair Kiel, 11th round, ’84; Steve Beuerlein, fourth round, ’87; Rick Mirer, first round, ’93; Jarious Jackson, seventh round, ’00; Brady Quinn, first round, ’07, and Jimmy Clausen, second round, ’10. Their career records as starters and passer ratings were as follows: Lisch (0-1, 25.1); Kiel (0-3, 75.4); Beuerlein (47-55, 80.3); Mirer (24-44, 63.5); Jackson (0-1, 46.4); Quinn (4-16, 64.4), and Clausen (1-13, 61.9). Collectively, the group posted a starting record of 76-133 and a passer rating of 71.4. Thank goodness for Beuerlein, who accounted for the lone Pro Bowl appearance in 1999. ... Kizer entered the 2016 season with high hopes, having started the final 11 games as a redshirt freshman the year before for a club that finished a surprising 10-3. “This is a team that will likely be favored in their first 11 games,” wrote Phil Steele in his College Football Preview. “That could put them 11-0 when they travel to USC for a game with probably playoff implications … they are a legitimate national title contender.” Kizer was voted the team’s MVP but it was a hollow award, to be sure. One of the nation’s most disappointing teams, the Irish posted their second worst record (4-8) in 54 years. “You look at that team, they’ve got players,” an AFC personnel man said. “There’s no way they should win just four games. It was because of this guy, the quarterback. Boy, at times he looked bad. He was so bad against Stanford in the first half that they benched him.” Two weeks after the season ended, Kizer renounced his final two years of eligibility having posted a 12-11 record in 23 starts. “He is the classic boom or bust,” said an AFC evaluator. “In terms of arm strength, athleticism, talent, intelligence, he’s the highest-end guy. At the same time, he’s also the one with the most flaws.” At the same time, the scouts were asked who among the leading passers would have the best chance to bust. Kizer was the easy winner with nine votes. Mahomes drew two votes, Trubisky and Watson each had one and one scout declined comment. Two of the executives indicated all five were equally risky. A common refrain among scouts was that Kizer possesses more physical gifts than any quarterback in the draft. “Athletic, strong arm, nice release, throws a nice deep ball, can move in the pocket,” one scout said. An equally heard assessment of Kizer’s shortcomings centered on what is widely perceived to be his questionable reason for playing football. “He’s not as good as he should be because he’s not committed to the game,” said one AFC executive. “He’s committed to building a brand. He wants all the things that come with being a starting quarterback but doesn’t want to put in the work.” An NFC personnel man described Kizer as a selfish player worried mostly about status and money. “That’s what drives him,” said the executive. “It’s all about him. Prima donna. Thin-skinned.” At 6 feet 4 ½ inches and 235 pounds, Kizer has a chance to become the 19th quarterback drafted in the first round over the last 20 years to enter the league weighing at least 235. “Kizer looks the part and all that,” an NFC executive said. “The guy also got benched, had a lot of bad games and doesn’t win.”
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...g-nfl-draft-prospects-quarterbacks/100736988/ 4. DESHONE KIZER, Notre Dame (6-4½, 235, 4.86, 2): Third-year sophomore from Toledo, Ohio. “Really good arm strength,” said one scout. “Can crank the ball through the tight windows. He’ll stand tall in the pocket. When he’s under pressure he doesn’t move in the pocket as well as you would like. Big dude.” Started 23 of 25 games, competing 60.8% for a rating of 98.6. “He should be the top guy but for some reason he’s not,” said another scout. “The tape is just incongruent. He’s smart (Wonderlic of 28). I talked to the kid. He’s got size, a good arm, pretty good athlete. Everything lines up. It doesn’t connect. Is there a fatal flaw somewhere? Maybe the game doesn’t slow down for him.” Ran for 992 yards and 18 touchdowns. “He’s a pure millennial,” said a third scout. “He’s caught up in being more of a quarterback image than being a quarterback. If he goes to the right spot with the right coach, he’ll ascend. They’re going to have to get him to focus on football. I honestly think this guy would do better in a small market. If he goes to a big market he’ll enjoy everything else that comes with the position. The one position in the building you don’t want to worry about whether he’s going to be focused on football is quarterback.”
I feel that same way about Brock. This sums up a lot of my point of view on the Brock comparison. Has all the tools, but it doesn't connect. Seemingly worries more about his image than playing the position.
I could see us taking Watson if he falls. I'd be fairly happy with it. The only question is arm strength. In our offense, it seems we really value it, but I wonder how much it truly is necessary. Apparently the guy has handled himself like a CEO, and I could see many front offices, including ours, being attracted to that. But when you look at the QBs we've had under OB, those guys have had arm strength. Hoyer was really the only one without it. Mallett, Weeden, Savage, Osweiler, etc. To throw something crazy out there, I could see a scenario where the Jags take Watson at four.
Notre Dame didn't have squat on offense and Kelly is an ass ,who is ALWAYS unhappy with his quarterbacks.
I never really like it when people start making excuses for players like this. Yes, his team lost some players, but if that's enough to make him look like total trash then maybe he's not a first round QB.
I think total trash is hyperbole. He had one really awful game last year and it was in putrid weather. His numbers weren't far off from what he did the year prior when everyone was blowing him. The team went from 10 wins with Stanley, Martin, Fuller etc. to 4 wins with them gone. Their offensive line outside of their LT McGlinchey (who I wish had come out) was poor and their defense was even worse. They fired their DC Brian VanGorder at the end of September and the whole year was pretty much a clusterf*ck. Kelly has had a lot of success as a college coach but he seems to be wearing out his welcome in South Bend. He's a very irascible person in general and seemed even more so last year. It wasn't a good look when his twitter account favorited a tweet saying that VanGorder needed to be fired after a loss to Michigan State. But in all honesty, I'm not pulling for them to draft or not draft Kizer. My only opinion is that he has talent and O'Brien knows everything he needs to know about him in all likelihood. I hope he succeeds here if they do pull the trigger whether it be in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round. bleacherreport.com/articles/2683014-mike-elko-named-notre-dame-defensive-coordinator-latest-details-reaction It was apparent in the season opener the defense would be a problem when it allowed 50 points and 517 total yards to a Texas team that finished 5-7 and missed a bowl game. The defense also allowed 36 points to Michigan State and 38 points to Duke (neither team made a bowl) during a 1-3 start that led to VanGorder's firing. The Fighting Irish still had the chance to make a bowl game with wins against Virginia Tech and USC in the final two games, but the defense was torched yet again. Notre Dame gave up 34 points to the Hokies and 45 points to the Trojans in two straight losses (USC did score two special teams touchdowns and return an interception for a score). https://www.si.com/college-football...fense-could-propel-or-torpedo-its-2016-season https://www.si.com/college-football...hting-irish-duke-blue-devils-brian-van-gorder Dating to last November, Notre Dame has yielded at least 36 points in six of nine games. The two exceptions in 2015—a 28–7 win over Wake Forest and a 19–16 victory over Boston College—came against teams that finished 107th and 124th, respectively, in Football Outsiders’ Offensive S&P + Ratings. In 2016 alone, the Irish have allowed an average of 37 points in regulation to Power 5 opponents. The quality of opponent Saturday threw Notre Dame’s defensive issues into stark relief: Duke ranked 95th nationally in yards per play and was coming off a loss to lowly Northwestern. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...brian-vangorder-fired-spt-20160925-story.html
He was terrible in 2 games in a row, so you can only explain one via weather and he had below 55% completion percentage in 5 games. Also, 9 interceptions in 12 games with a really weak schedule is a problem as well. The problem saying that he played poorly due to players leaving is that you can easily say that the only reason he ever played well is due to the players he was surrounded by.
I'm not saying the kid doesn't have flaws. We all know he does. But he is talented. This applies to both Mahomes and Watson as well. The situation at Notre Dame last season was toxic in more ways than one. And his numbers didn't stray that far from his redshirt freshman year. I hope he's a stud if they draft him just like I hope Mahomes or Watson are studs if they're picked. All of them have the potential to be good quarterbacks. It'll come down to their work ethic and the right scheme/team/fit. Go Texans.
Well I'm not saying that he's not talented, I just don't think he's a first round pick if it wasn't for this being just a terrible QB class. In a normal QB class he'd be a late 2nd or possibly even a 3rd round prospect who someone just takes a flier on as a project. You could say the same for Mahomes and Watson would be even a later round pick. Since there's really no good prospects in this class, these guys get talked about as first rounders.
I don't think this QB class is terrible necessarily. It has good depth. It just has no "slam dunk" guys. And that's scary because even "slam dunk" guys are quite risky. This draft reminds me a bit of 2014. Garrett and then everyone else with no quarterbacks really deserving of being taken high just like Clowney and then everyone else with no quarterbacks really deserving of being taken high. Will Trubisky or one of these guys get pushed up and overdrafted like Bortles was? I find it hard to believe that Watson, Mahomes, and Trubisky will all be taken in the top 15 but 2011 happened so anything is possible. If it's true that Kizer is a target with pick 57 then I am completely fine with that. That would mean that they're most likely targeting OT in the first. Then you could add to the running back position and the defense with the rest of the picks.
Just recently discovered this channel. This isn't a professional scout analysis in any way but haven't seen any other vids like this and since its on topic I'll leave this here. Also a Mahomes analysis since a lot of you love the guy so much. And I really liked that Chad Kelly tape. Very small sample sizes too but hell, I'm watching any and everything to kill this time until the draft.
I caught pieces of a sit down with the NFL network this morning. This dude talks nothing like Brock. He definitely is the type that will take it against teams for passing on him. This is my dream 2nd round scenario. I'm hoping he gets into some kind of trouble this week so his stock drops more
