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Deshaun the Great

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Colt45, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    Watson and the Texans have a better record than the Patriots right now.
     
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  2. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    OBie >> Belichick.
     
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I think you have to look long term and in some ways Duane Brown screwed himself because now the projected ceiling of the season is MUCH lower and him screwing over his teammates added to that in some ways. It's not a "going all in" type season anymore so there's absolutely no reason to give in to Brown and set the precedent that football terrorism will accomplish anything positive.

    Could he help the team if he showed up for work? Sure, but he's not the difference between a special season and the team being a 4 or 5 win team as it stands now. He's now over 1.3 million in money that would have been in his pockets if he'd just done the right thing, so there's a good chance that this is about more than just money because no one would piss away that kind of money if money was the most important thing to them. Worst case scenario he shows up week 9 anyway having lost something like 5 million dollars due to his holdout. IMO that "worst case scenario" is also the best possible outcome for the team. It'll send a strong message to the players that Duane Brown's actions are unacceptable and will not be rewarded and I think that's more valuable to the team than Duane Brown coming back a couple weeks early.
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Exactly, players bet on themselves to make the contracts much larger than they otherwise would be if they were fully guaranteed. A player that is unwilling to bet on themselves is a player I don't want on a large guaranteed deal to begin with.....and neither do most teams.
     
  5. justtxyank

    justtxyank We are all Kosh
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    This is a simplistic way of looking at what's going on. If Duane Brown had shown up to the first game his contract would be guaranteed for the year. There is clearly more going on here.

    The support of the "they signed a contract, honor it" is silly. Teams ask players to restructure contracts all the time, including the Texans and even when the player has had more than 2 years left. We've restructured guys, we've renegotiated with stars, etc. Typically when a player has multiple non guaranteed years at the end is setup for a restructuring on purpose. I'm willing to bet that in negotiations it was discussed at the time this deal was signed, just like JJ's bonus was discussed as a restructure opportunity when they gave it to him.

    There is more here than just a simple one side wants guaranteed money and one side doesn't negotiate with two years left.
     
  6. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    The comment you are responding to was about guaranteed money in general, not about Duane Brown, if you read the comment right above that one you'd see where I said
    The way I look at it, Duane Brown can go ahead and cost himself half of his game checks this season, I fully support him losing that money, but there's no way you reward his actions or others will try the same thing. Most players aren't willing to lose half of their salary, so if you handle this right and don't reward Duane Brown for being a blue falcon, you send a strong message to everyone else. IMO given that this isn't an "all in" season, that is more important than potentially having a guy who isn't a team player back on the field.
     
  7. csj

    csj Member

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    Wow, what a red herring. In what universe does this make sense?

    Sure, teams ask players to restructure deals. Players can decline and if they do, teams honor the contract that's in place. Likewise, a player can ask for the team to "restructure" a deal. If the team declines, the player should throw a tantrum and not report?

    Teams restructure primarily to manage cap space and sign other players, not to harm the players they restructure. Players often agree because it doesn't cost them and sometimes benefits them, plus it enables the team to get better. You know, things for which Duane Brown is unconcerned. Sometimes a team reworks a deal because a player isn't worth his contract. In this case, the player can view the lesser contract as being more appealing than being out of the league.

    Don't be a hypocrite, there is no moral equivalency between teams looking to improve their roster and players selfishly violating contracts to the detriment of their teams.
     
  8. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    Restructure typically entails a signing bonus aka more guaranteed money. Its usually not a bad thing.
     
  9. justtxyank

    justtxyank We are all Kosh
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    I'm not defending him sitting out.

    However, teams DO cut players if they refuse to renegotiate. Heck, if Derek Newton had refused to take a paycut he'd be cut right now. He had three years left on his deal and renegotiated to take a big paycut because of his injury and to avoid being cut.
     
  10. RasaqBoi

    RasaqBoi Member

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    Literally just saw the dude at Whole Foods galleria.

    This is officially the home for Watson and Hopkins.

    Harden is still treasures.
     
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  11. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Contributing Member
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    It is not silly that players should follow their contract. It definitely isn't silly 2 years out. If players restructure a deal, it is still within confines of both parties agreeing on a deal. I'm not sure restructuring a deal causes a player to lose money as I think in most cases it is moving money to other years, guaranteeing money to affect when salary is applied to cap, or lowering non guaranteed money instead of cutting a crappy player (i.e. eliminating non-guaranteed money completely).

    On Brown, he's not getting an extension. He's better than what the Texans have, but he does not look like he will be a good player after this current contract is done. I'm really not sure what he hopes to gain. I don't see what the Texans can do that isn't worse for them than letting him holdout.
     
  12. csj

    csj Member

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    Cutting players is part of league business, not a conspiracy to force players to renegotiate. Offering to renegotiate is often a better alternative for a player than release. Something I mentioned in my previous post knowing it would be brought up. It's irrelevant.

    I'm not sure why expecting a player to honor his contract is "silly" if you weren't defending a player holding out. Has there ever been an example where a team didn't honor a contract? Is it silly for a team to feel compelled to do so?
     
  13. Nimo

    Nimo Member
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    People are still defending the Texans on this one? smh
     
  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Defending the Texans on what? Not giving in to football terrorism? What about that needs defending in any way?
     
  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Contributing Member

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    Back to the thread topic

    Watson definitely has a presence of leadership and confidence this has never had at quarterback in its short history. Getting up and scoring after that vicious sack is rhe type of thing what separates good from great
     
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  16. Major

    Major Member
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    So is holding out.

    Teams and players agree to a contract with certain terms. Those terms include the fact the contract is not guaranteed so players can be cut. They also include penalties if a player chooses not to play.

    Teams often use the non-guarantee to leverage players into taking less money or getting cut.
    Playes often use the ability to accept the penalty to leverage teams into giving them more money or cutting them so they can get it elsewhere.

    Both sides uses the terms of their contracts to their maximum advantage.

    If the CBA didn't want players to be able to hold out, it would be easy - don't allow renegotiations mid-contract (similar to the NBA and MLB, I believe). Neither of those leagues have holdouts. Both sides in the NFL want it set up the way they have it. People always talk about NFLPA being weak, but it's not an accident that things are set up this way - it's was 100% intentional.
     
  17. csj

    csj Member

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    No it is not. It is a violation of a legal contract.

    Violating the contract is not using "the terms of their contracts to their maximum advantage". This is a false equivalency.

    This is like saying that murder is legal just so long as you're willing to serve the time. Are murderers just using terms to maximum advantage?

    That's not the only thing they could do and no doubt it's intentional, but that doesn't mean the intention is to have holdouts. Calling out penalties for breaking rules isn't endorsing breaking rules.

    Teams don't violate contracts, only players do. There's no moral equivalence and non-guaranteed contracts are irrelevant to the discussion.
     
  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member
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    So you saying . . .. the NFL OFFERS GUARANTEED CONTRACTS but players don't sign them

    Rocket River
     
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member
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    You have contracts where owners can cut players on a whim
    or force them to renegotiate their contracts down . . .
    but
    want to be mad when players try to renegotiate up?

    Rocket River
     
  20. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Rookie

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    Of course "Deshaun the Great" has turned into the "Great Debate".
     
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