1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Cross out McCoy

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by hotshotrbs2, Sep 21, 2001.

  1. hotshotrbs2

    hotshotrbs2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. Francis3

    Francis3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 1999
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    3
    Man, I was hoping he could sign here. His numbers might look bad but if given the time, he can really play well. I wonder why the Former UCLA player chose the lakers? :rolleyes:
     
  3. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
  4. hotshotrbs2

    hotshotrbs2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Care to elaborate?
     
  5. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    I've done so many times, but I will. The Lakers were dominant last year because of the great chemistry they had on the floor. Yes, Shaq and Kobe are good, but that team to me was very comparable to the 95 Rockets. Struggled in the regular season, turned it on in the playoffs when everything started clicking. Now, Fisher is gone for six months. Shaq will miss a huge part of training camp. Horace Grant, the guy that stepped up huge for them in the playoffs, is gone. Do you really think this team will walk out on the court with the same exact chemistry they left it with? To dominate like they did takes an extrodinary amount of team chemistry, harmony, unity, etc. I have serious doubts that they will ever recapture that type of dominance next season. They'll be good because of their talent, but considering the egos of Kobe and Shaq, I seriously doubt they'll have the chemistry to be as dominant.
     
  6. hotshotrbs2

    hotshotrbs2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, yes I agree that they will not be able to maintain their postseason dominance consistently but that would be impossible to do. The question was, is there a lot of doubt? I don't eblieve there is.

    Derek Fisher could be back in December-January, and the Lakers have picked up young, talented players (S. Walker/J.McCoy) and have added Mitch Richmond and Lindsey Hunter. Their bench will be better, Kobe will be better, Shaq will not be worse than last year.

    If you look at it from a different perspective, the Lakers are a better team than they were last year. With the acquisitions they made, Horace Grant's departure doesn't matter.

    Who in the West has made themselves so much better that they would even challenge the lakers in a playoff series. The Kings? Do you think Mike Bibby will make that much of a difference? Remember the lakers swept the West last year. The Spurs? They are much older (Robinson, Smith). All others aren't worth mentioning considering Dallas is a couple years from contention.

    Considering LA has kept their team together and arguably made themselves better, I find it hard to believe that there is a lot of doubt who will win the championship.
     
  7. Jaime

    Jaime New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Other than Portland, the Lakers probably had the worst chemistry in the league last year.

    And from what I've read, Fisher is suppose to be back by December. They picked up Lindsay Hunter who should be able to hold down the fort until he comes back. But he had the surgery earlier this year so it isn't like he is coming back in March again and according to the LA Times he is already rehabing and working out.. Big difference between December and March. The other day the Times also had a thing about Shaq being their when they were looking at McCoy and he was already off his crutches and said that he would be back by the 4th or 5th preseason game and that was before they cancelled their first 3 games in Japan.

    I hate them too, but they look much better than the last 2 years right now with their additions.

    GO CLIPPS!
     
  8. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    Other than Portland, the Lakers probably had the worst chemistry in the league last year.

    In the regular season, perhaps, but certainly not in the playoffs.

    Who in the West has made themselves so much better that they would even challenge the lakers in a playoff series.

    I don't think it's that as much as the Lakers have gotten worse. I like the Lakers last year over this year talent-wise, and of course you know my stance on chemistry. I will go out on a limb and say Spurs-Kings in the Western Conference Finals this season.
     
  9. hotshotrbs2

    hotshotrbs2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you think the Lakers have gotten so much worse that the unimproved Spurs/Kings will make it to the WCF even though they were both swept by the Lakers? Do you realize what you're saying? Horace Grant makes that much of a difference? The new players make no impact? Cat, I respect you as a fan but this is frankly ridiculous.
     
  10. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    <I>Now, Fisher is gone for six months. Shaq will miss a huge part of training camp. Horace Grant, the guy that stepped up huge for them in the playoffs, is gone. Do you really think this team will walk out on the court with the same exact chemistry they left it with? To dominate like they did takes an extrodinary amount of team chemistry, harmony, unity, etc. I have serious doubts that they will ever recapture that type of dominance next season. </i>

    People said the same thing as the Bulls began what was to be another championship trifecta...

    It's the big guns that win it for you---they got 'em---and winning creates chemistry.
     
  11. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    Cat, I respect you as a fan but this is frankly ridiculous.

    First, I think both the Spurs and Kings have improved substantially.

    I don't think Horace Grant makes the difference, I think chemistry makes the difference. I understand this is an unpopular opinion, and I completely understand what you are saying, but I just don't think you guys consider the intangibles enough. I may be dead wrong, and I will apologize if I am, but I just don't think the Lakers will win the championship next season.

    People said the same thing as the Bulls began what was to be another championship trifecta...


    Last I checked the Lakers didn't have a leader the quality of Michael Jordan.
     
  12. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0


    Thats just hatin'. You're too smart to think either of those teams can beat the Lakers in a seven game series.

    San An has a big score to settle, but David is a year older and Steve Smith isn't getting any better at this point in his career...
     
  13. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0


    Ahhh but they do.


    Phil Jackson. It is an absolute MISTAKE to underestimate his team and coalition building. Talent wins in the playoffs, and NO ONE prepares and gets his teams focused and built for the playoffs like Phil.


    Come what may during the regular season, these dudes will be a well-oiled machine come playoff time.
     
  14. Band Geek Mobster

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    6,019
    Likes Received:
    17
    I hate agreeing with GB...
     
  15. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,796
    Likes Received:
    5,204
    GB,

    Question: if Phil was so good that he could build these intangibles himself, why can't he ever go to a team without the MVP to carry him to a title? Personally, I'd take Rudy as a coach over Phil...
     
  16. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thats a dodge...

    Why can't he ever?????


    He's only head-coached at the NBA level on two teams...only one of them an outright hire. The other was a promotion.
     
  17. hotshotrbs2

    hotshotrbs2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK. I'll agree that the Kings "are substantially better." But the spurs? They got worse. Much worse.

    Also, i disagree that the chemistry will be the back-breaker. Think about it: the have all the starters-main backups back this year, plus hungry new guys that will do anything for a ring. No one on the team signed for the money, recognition, or playing time. It's because the Lakers win. Shaq is unstoppable. Kobe is unstoppable. They don't have to be best friends. Shaq has repetitively said "Kobe is the best player in the league." Shaq wants the rings, and knows how good Kobe is. I believe last year's hard times followed by the dominance pulled them together, and the chemistry this year will actually be better.



    I know this is just one article, but here is someone else's view. The best is at the bottom.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/support/lakers.html
     
  18. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 1999
    Messages:
    6,237
    Likes Received:
    2
    I see the Clippers or Mavs making noise in the Western playoffs this year. That's pretty much it.

    As far as the enchilada goes... I hate the Bucks (b/c Ray Allen is a whiner and Robinson is a dork) but I think the Bucks or the Raptors or even the Hornets will give whichever Western team a serious run.

    Hell, the NBA could make sure the Lakers never win again just from doubling Shaq every possession. Even if they win the first 60 games, he'll retire on the 61st. I doubt the guy is mature enough to handle the situations he'll be put in this year... he seems like a 350 lb. baby to me. I expect the guy to say "Chuuuunnnnk" everytime he's in the paint.
     
  19. SteveFrancis3

    SteveFrancis3 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes Received:
    17
    Kings unimproved??? Mike Bibby is a HUGE improvement over JWill. Also Horace Grant was pretty important. Who's going to start at PF now? Horry, Walker, McCoy? Horry is good, but he is good as a offensive and defensive spark plug off the bench. Horry would get killed starting against the likes of Duncan/Webber/Garnett. Grant is a lot bulkier than Horry and a better rebounder. Walker and McCoy didn't get much time on their former teams, and they will only be minor factors to the Lakers. Hunter is a good quality pg. However, the Lakers already have Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw and Ron Harper playing a majority of the minutes at pg. How many minutes could Hunter possibly get come playoff time, when Fisher is back from his injury.

    Another factor that has not been mentioned in the zone defense. Who knows how that will effect all teams. Since you believe the Kings, if any team, might be able to beat the Lakers, lets see how it would effect them.

    Divac - Outside shooting c
    Webber - Outside shooting pf (as well as inside game)
    Stojakovic - Pure shooter
    Christie - Good shooter
    Bibby - Pure middle distance shooter (ala Terrell Brandon)
    Turkoglu - Pure shooter
    Pollard - Banger
    Jackson - playmaker, pretty good shot
    Price - 3pt shooter

    The zone would immensely help Divac, Webber, Predrag, Bibby and Turkoglu, all pure shooters (For their position at least in Divac/Webber's cases)

    As for the Lakers:
    Shaq - Inside playing C
    Horry - Good clutch shooter
    Fox - Streaky, but good shooter
    Bryant - Good shooter, but game relies on athleticism
    Fisher - Good shooter
    Hunter - Barely decent shooter (see bucks playoffs)
    Walker - No shot, banger
    Harper - Poor shooter, just a tall, old pg
    McCoy - No shot, banger
    Shaw - Pure shooter

    For the Lakers the zone will really only slightly improve Fox, Fisher, Shaw and Horry's games, but these guys are only role players versus the guys on the Kings who would improve. Kobe is also a good shooter, but his game relies on his slashing ability and athleticism, unlike a guy like Predrag, whose game is all about his shot.

    Now I am not saying that the Kings will beat the Lakers or anything, just pointing out that saying there is NO doubt the Lakers don't win is absurd. The teams in the West you mentioned all have a chance, not to mention the teams in the East you left out. Sure the East as a whole is weaker than the West, but there are some very good teams (Bucks, 76ers, Magic, Heat, Hornets, Raptors) that all have a chance to win the title.
     
    #19 SteveFrancis3, Sep 22, 2001
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2001
  20. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    He did Cat, I wanted to check, but his first championship was in the CBA without a big gun to carry him through. He then carried that same ability on and up into the NBA.

    http://www.salon.com/people/bc/2001/05/29/jackson/


    Looks like the man just has a talent for bball. I'm not sure I agree with the last sentance in your post.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now