Cosell Talks: The Top 5 Wide Receivers (AJ #1)

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by xcrunner51, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. 713

    713 Member

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    dez bryant has top 5 talent but a jacoby jones brain.
     
  2. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Contributing Member

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    I don't think that really means much in the grand scheme of things. Joe Flacco throws a pretty deep ball but his mid range accuracy is spotty.

    Schaub may not throw darts like Stafford, but it is the WR's job to get open. Calvin Johnson doesn't do all his damage on deep balls either.
     
  3. ubigred

    ubigred Contributing Member

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    His noodle arm sucks.

    Flacco doesn't have a stud #1
     
  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    plus no one is comparing Flacco to either Stafford or Schaub.

    AJ gets open all the time, although I think he has an advantage over Calvin there because of Kubiak. When the ball finally arrives he has stopped for a cuppa tea and been surrounded by DBs. He fights for the ball as well as anyone.
     
  5. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Since 2008, Schaub has finished 2nd, 5th, 6th and 3rd in YPA. His average as a Texan - *average* - is 7.98. That's higher than Peyton Manning's career YPA. Higher than Tom Brady's. And most assuredly higher than Matthew Freaking Stafford's. You don't do that "dumping" it to RBs and TEs.

    In fact, Stafford had his best year as a QB last year and only posted a 7.60 YPA. And that's with Calvin Johnson averaging 17.5 yards a catch. 17.5. Take away CJ and Stafford's YPA plummets by more than a yard: 6.55. David Carr's career YPA is 6.38.

    And before you say it - playing 6 full games without AJ last year, Schaub posted an 8.48 YPA - a career best.

    So you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

    He's younger; that's Stafford only tangible advantage. It's a big one - I'd absolutely trade Schaub for Stafford - but it's based on nothing but age. He is not a better QB right now.
     
  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Interesting coming from the guy who was SHOCKED if they take an OLB in the first 4 rounds. LOL

    Do you actually watch the games? Schaubs 80 and 78 yard passes to JJ and Arian were 10 yards dumps that the players took yard.

    As far as actually THROWING long passes Schaub has a noodle arm. Your stats are worthless. Arian has a YAC stat of 12.1

    His longest pass is 80 yards to Arian, he threw it 5 yards, Arian took it 75.
     
  7. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    What a remarkably strange and flaccid misdirect. If I said it... (and I have no working recollection of it - care to post a link?) - who cares? Mindlessly predicting draft results has absolutely zero relevance to discussing quantifiable and tangible QB statistics.

    No. I don't. I have someone send me hourly updates via smoke signal.

    I like that YPA is somehow *my* stat - as if I'm making it up. It's a legitimate stat. Honest. And it's highly predictive of team success.

    Foster's catch-run was 78; his longest - in the same game (aren't you WACHING games?????) - was 80 to Jacoby and it was most assuredly not a 10-yard dump.

    He doesn't have a strong arm - but this isn't about throwing a ball 75 yards - it's refuting your inaccurate (and ignorant) "dump" statement. QBs who throw for nearly 8 yards a pass attempt are not dumping it off.
     
  8. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Here you go:

    Ouch

    And it says nothing of the QB's ability to throw a deep ball. Throw to guys with massive YAC's and you look great.

    He threw a freaking wounded duck that was pathetic. Jacoby had to wait on it.

    Arians long runs (and Schaubs long completions) are from dump off plays. He isn't throwing deep at all.
    Schaub is. My statement is accurate. His rating comes from TE and RB dumps and watching them run. Like I said before, the things Stafford is better at than Schaub helps his WRs. Your YPA stat to prove he can throw deep is asinine. In 2011 Cam Newton had almost a yard less per completion, no one in their right mind would say he is inferior at throwing down the field.

    A better stat is who is he throwing too. In 2011 the person targeted the most was.........Owen Daniels with 93 (he is a TE) second was Arian Foster with 80 (he is a RB). He isn't that great for wide outs.
     
  9. HR Dept

    HR Dept Contributing Member

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    http://www.advancednflstats.com/2012/01/air-yards-2011.html

    This should end that arguement and prove you somewhat right and wrong. Schaub is tenth in 'Air Yards Per Attempt.' Ahead of Stafford and Kolb. However Stafford's and Kolb's % of air yards are slightly higher.

    I think the three are more comparable, in this regard, than different.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. HR Dept

    HR Dept Contributing Member

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    It also makes that whole argument moot, as there is a very small amount of disparity from top to bottom.
     
  11. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    I think Kubiak's offense is a factor here. Schaub throws on boots quite often and throwing it long is almost mandatory unless he has to dump to Arian which he often does.

    I mean we can all tell by watching that Schaub lacks arm strength compared to Stafford, Newton, Brady etc. It isn't hard to SEE that when you QB is incapable of overthrowing your WR's the results might favor other guys.

    I'm not even hating on Schaub, he has strengths and weaknesses. The long ball is just a weakness. For this next year if I knew all three were healthy I would take him over Stafford.
     
  12. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    I recall specifically requesting a link... Geez, I can't imagine why you'd fail to provide one despite apparently having access to the post - oh, wait! I know! Because you wanted to completely rip it out of context and hoped no one would call you on it. Surprise! I'm calling you on it.

    Here's my entire quote in its entirety - note the giant "save" you conveniently left off because it's kinda, sorta important:
    I don't know, man - seems to me that's exactly what happened, isn’t it, CaseyH?
    Ouch indeed.

    More importantly, now that we've established that you're not above fabricating details... what does a(n accurate, as it turns out) draft prediction have to do with verifiable, tangible QB statistics?

    You mean... like Matt Stafford?

    So, IOW... it wasn't one of his patented, rating-stuffing "TE and RB dumps"? It's OK to admit you're wrong. In fact, you were wrong twice: His 80-yard TD was not to Arian Foster and it was not a "TE and RB dump." No need to start devolving the discussion into a series of "yeah but"s as you furiously move the target. You were wrong. No big deal. Admit it and move on.

    Schaub doesn't have a strong arm - but he routinely ranks among the league leaders in YPA, which means he is not, by any stretch, inflating his rating with "TE and RB dumps." To continue arguing he does is, quite frankly, ignorant.

    (Where is DonnyMost, btw? Or The Cat – get in here!)

    Again, it's not *my* stat - it's a widely used metric by a lot of football people, some of whom believe it is the purest means for evaluating winning QBs that we have.

    Again, again: We're not debating how strong his arm is (it's not very strong at all and I've never said otherwise... though feel free to fabricate a post in which you pretend as if I did say it as we now know that's part of your arsenal). I’m refuting your asinine idea that Schaub is a product of "TE and RB dumps." He may have leaned it on it heavily last year because his best WR was hurt and his second and third WRs were also hurt (Walter) and/or proved to be supremely mediocre (JJ). But historically, he throws to his WRs and does so at a league-leading rate.

    Again: Johnson missed significant time; Walter was hurt and/or regressed; JJ regressed. Schaub's hand was forced. His RB and TEs were routinely his best (and only) options most weeks. In a typical (read: healthy) year, he targets AJ nearly twice as many times as any other player on the team and Walter is routinely 2nd or 3rd. And his YPA is among the league leaders.

    He throws downfield. Downfield does not equal 50 yards. Offenses are routinely built around mostly 7-10-yard pass plays.
     
    #52 Hey Now!, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  13. rocketfan83

    rocketfan83 Member

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    Wes Welker not in the top 5? nonsense

    What else must he do?
     
  14. Grandpappy

    Grandpappy Member

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    Schaub does not have a strong arm, but he does throw deep. His inbility to lead the receiver(read AJ) properly results in a lot plays where AJ is tackled after he makes the catch. That is what hurts Johnson's TD numbers. To the OP who says he only dumps off to Arian and the TEs that is simply not true. Just because he does not have a strong arm does not mean he only dumps off. Look at what AJ has done since he had Schaub throwing to him versus the David Carr years. during the Carr era he had more than 1000 yds receiving only 2 times in 5 years. The most yards he ever got was 1147. During the Schaub era he has topped 1000yds three times in 4 seasons, hit more than 1500 yards twice. During the Carr era he was averaging around 5.25 YAC. During the Schaub era he is averaging around 4.2YAC. You dont post those kind of improvements unless you have a QB that is actually throwing the ball to you.
     
  15. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    You mean where Stafford throws it amongst 3 defenders and Calvin Johnson comes down with it?

    Calvin Johnson
    Larry Fitzgerald
    Andre Johnson
     
  16. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Do it without Tom Brady, and the Patriots offense. He's the perfect player for their offense.

    BTW, he belongs in the Top 5.
     
  17. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Stafford threw for 3357 yards to people not named Calvin Johnson. I'll be happy if Schaub gets that in total next year.
     
  18. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    See those little red things in the quote box? Those are links to the quotes genius.

    Wow. :rolleyes:

    Thanks for the "call out" though, more ammo to call you on your ignorance later.

    As for the rest of your post, format it in a way that doesn't make me wanna shoot my monitor and I might read it.
     
  19. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    What if I just got a response started for ya?...

    I forgive you. [/Walter White]
     
  20. Joshfast

    Joshfast Contributing Member

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    oh god come on training camp I can't take any more [​IMG] or the Astros..
     

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