Connecting the Trump-Russia Dots

Regarding the argument that nobody cares about the Russia story except a couple of wingnuts: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-russia-polls-235667

NBC/WSJ poll finds that 47% of voters think the story is 'very important' plus another 17% think it is 'somewhat important.' Conservatives may get the impression that no one cares because 40% of Republicans say it isn't important at all and only 35% (which is still kinda big imo) say it is somewhat or very important. 63% of independents say it is somewhat or very important (and 90% of Democrats, unsurprisingly). I've seen this allegation a number of times in various forms from people, that 'regular Americans' don't care about this stuff. That doesn't seem to be true. And they see the trend has been moving against Trump over time, so the news coverage on the issue seems to be having an impact on how people feel about it. Cue the crooked media.

Article has other interesting stuff in it. A McClatchy-Marist poll finds that 48% think Trump did something illegal or unethical in his dealings with Russia, against 41% that think he's done nothing wrong. But Republicans are keeping the faith -- 82% that he did nothing wrong, vs 9% that he acted illegally or unethically.

 

^ yeah, people care. I'm not sure where the "looney left" / "nobody cares" narrative is coming from, aside from the usual media outlet suspects.

If McCain and Graham and McMullen and even GWB care, there are probably a lot of people that care. Those are fringe conservatives by any means.

 

That's what happens when you have a mountain of circumstantial evidence BUT it's just cir

People not caring is the best defense they have. They started using that strategy with the tax returns and are continuing it here. It feels like the last leg to stand on. Still, smoke does not equal fire.

 

Notice the cheese on that burger?

American.

 

This is not a surprise:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/us/politics/us-attorney-justice-department-trump.html

Gotta ensure no one is around to enforce the law as the administration is further and further cornered.

 

Let's assume for a moment that your ridiculous, completely evidence-less, half-baked theory is true (instead of the more plausible idea that the hysterically awful Democrats are so ashamed of losing to Trump that instead of looking in the mirror they actually have so little shame that they are concocting this racist, McCarthy-esque Red Scare nonsense), can you explain to the audience: what exactly is the end-game here for Putin and Co.? Some peace perhaps? More trade between Russia and the US that would result in the creation of jobs for Americans? Oh the horror!

I am just curious to see how strange (and perhaps humorous) Left logic can get.

 

^Really? Wow.

I have a feeling that if one is the kind of person who can't figure out the self evident benefit to Putin to having installed a kompromat, konflicted klown on Pennsylvania Ave, one is probably also the kind of person to whom an explanation is as bad as fit as basic human dignity is to Trump himself.

 

Peace.... Putin.... ahahah.

McCarthy???... Do you realize that Trump himself was mentored his whole life by Roy Cohn... McCarthy's side kick. Trump & his fans can't possibly mention McCarthy without a strong sense of irony.

Typical ignorant Trump fan response though reg Putin. Will jump off a bridge if he says you should do so. Do you know anything about Putin & Russia? Is the only thing you can do is insult "Libtards" and act like Liberals are the ones spreading conspiracy theories (hello Birtherism, 3 million illegal voters, deep state/Illuminati, Vaccination conspiracy, Code Pink, Scalia Murder Theory, 911 truther etc.... all conspiracy theories your boy Trump peddles). Do you really even want to have a serious discussion reg Putin & Foreign policy or you just want to recite some Hannity Liberal put downs and call it a night?

But I'll entertain this one time.... I'll admit that what I said was a theory, but its hardly without some smoke. But I'll give you a history & foreign policy break down for the hell of it.

1. You realize that a good reason why Russia's economy is now smaller than Brazil & Italy's is because of the massive amount of Sanctions imposed on Russia right? You know that the US can help lift those sanctions right?
2. You know that NATO is pretty much the only thing preventing WW3 right? Do you know that Putin has invaded a sovereign country right? If the US wants our NATO allies to have our back when we get attacked, we have to also do our part to protect our allies. Its kind of the point of NATO in the first place.
3. Putin has said himself about how his goal is to return Russia back to where it was before the Soviet Union broke apart. He has also blamed the US (namely Bill Clinton) for allowing the Baltic States to join NATO which significantly weakened Russia.

If you don't know what the end game is for Putin than you just need to get out from underneath your rock and learn about history and foreign policy. This is very very basic stuff. Putin's end game is obviously to weaken our State departments influence over Europe, to weaken NATO (allowing him to regain power in the Baltic States with no resistance), and to boost his country's economy back up by getting sanctions removed.

No.... Putin doesn't want to go to war with the US. No he doesn't want a nuclear war. In the end he wants his country to be a superpower again, and he wants a great economy for his country. Not all terrible things, but his methods are terrible.

So left logic... yeah the logic is to do your homework, educate yourself about some basic history, and come up with some understanding of what the major players want to get out of our country so we can have an idea of what to expect.

Again.... Peace... Putin. If you want peace in the World, the incredibly obvious big thing you should want is a strong NATO. Second you should want Putin to get sanctions removed the right way... .by NOT attacking Ukraine, annexing Crimea, etc. Stop bombing hospitals in Aleppo in order to keep another dictator in power. Pushing for a Peaceful Russia is a good thing, but it doesn't start with giving the green light for Putin to continue his murderous path to taking power by force.

Its time for Trump fans to WAKE THE F-$% UP. Know about what you are fighting for with Trump & understand the implications rather than just repeating the elementary talking points and acting like "LIBTARDS" are the enemy here. We are your fellow Americans.

 

Well, trade agreements don't necessarily create jobs for Americans, as executives might offshore jobs there and retailers might start importing more from them. Also, Russian strategic interests are historically distinct from the rest of Europe, whereas our fundamental cultural heritage, economic and diplomatic alignments are with three our four countries in Western Europe that aren't Russia. Bear in mind that Donald Trump ran for office for the same reason social conservatives and jaded blue collar whites nominated and elected him, boredom and spite. He's moved on to leveraging his office to get oil concessions and foreign real estate deals for Eric and Ivanka, while you'll be holding your dick and shouting "scoreboard" for the next four years as our Postwar allegiances evaporate into thin air.

 

Have read the declassified version of the intelligence report? It's a PDF, and has been posted on this site numerous times. It goes over much of the evidence and analysis. It shows actual proof that the Russians acting on behalf of Putin did in fact try and influence the election in favor of Trump. There is evidence and proof in the report. I'll link it yet again.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

The proof is so overwhelming even Trump admits the Russians were behind the hacking. Now this follows the pattern of Putin in undermining and attempting to undermine democracies in Europe. It makes sense since Putin had a personal vendetta against Hillary. He was trying to breed discord and chaos even more than actually believing Trump would win.

We don't know what else there is. What we do know is that Trump's team was in contact with Russians during the campaign. They pushed to have forgiveness of Russia's invasion of the Ukraine softened (which they initially lied about). That numerous members of Trump's team lied about meetings with the Russians.

For the record I've said we don't know what Trump's team did that was even wrong. It might have been nothing at all. But for some reason they are lying and trying to hide their meetings. So why are they doing that? If I ever get a decent answer from any one of the many Trump supporters claiming the left is just making stuff up, I'll be surprised. Can you answer the question why Trump's people are lying about their meeting and work they did softening the stance against Russia?

 

Ex-Trump adviser swaps messages with DNC hacking suspect

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trump-adviser-swaps-messages-dnc-hacking-suspect-46066758

 

You can't make this stuff up. Stone in contact with Russian hackers. Flynn an actual foreign agent paid by Turkey. ex-FBI agent central to fake Clinton e-mail "scandal" was paid by Flynn. The Russian ambassador know to intelligence agencies as a spy recruiter/handler snuck into Trump tower during the campaign and repeatedly met with Trump campaign people. Trump campaign alters RNC platform to be more friendly to Russia. Trump tower server in contact with Russian bank.... etc. and the Trump people lie about every aspect at every stage while intel agencies are forced to leak to the public since the coverup apparently includes the GOP blocking for a Trump.

The list keeps on growing and more and more elements the Steele dossier gets more and more corroborated. (Steele connected Trump end game to the sale of 19% of Rosneft and the lifting of sanctions on Russia. Trump lifts the sanctions and in turn gets a huge cut/payout. 19.5% of Rosneft has been sold and no one knows who actually bought it.) Any one or two or three of these things could probably be rationally explained away, but there is too much smoke and waaaay too many lies. And now aggressive moves against anyone who might actually investigate or prosecute the misdeeds, whatever they may be. And the details and the lies get worse each week.

Putin and Russia can't possibly believe how easy this was in the end. Turning the tools the GOP depended on to keep their base misinformed against the GOP to get Putin's people in office. In helping one corrupt, ignorant, child of inherited wealth to office, Putin has effectively neutralized the U.S. and weakened NATO.

You can't make this stuff up. Even Tom Clancy wouldn't squeeze this much in one novel. He would spread that **** out.

 

Please, produce the Tweets so we may judge Stone.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...money-machine.html?via=desktop&source=twitter

 

They still never proved any high level Russian hacking or "interference". Yet it's been turned into 100% verified reality without proof. The last major DHS press release under Obama about the hacking showed easily obtained, out dated Ukrainian malware. Maybe some day there will be clear evidence of this, but that day hasn't come yet. My life won't end if they actually provide proof, but they never have.

If you want to dig up my old posts go for it. I'm more than happy to look at them. And on another note I waste too much time writing here, but I'll still get drawn into it. Very few people ever change their mind or come here for honest discussion. It just comes down to a partisan Internet pissing contest rather than trying figure out reality. I don't understand how people always come to one conclusion immediately then never have any courage/desire to waiver from it or to question it.

 

I guess that is where we will differ. The proof in my eyes has never been shown. Just because other people have joined the bandwagon doesn't mean that is proof.

I haven't kept up with everything because it is tiresome, but was there actually a smoking gun that legitimately connected the Kremlin to the hack and distribution of the hacked material? I'm not trying to be a stupid ******* denying everything, but I can't just go along with an idea if it isn't proven. I know our intelligence community concluded the Russians interfered, but they don't exactly have a perfect track record. I mean you know this. I don't think I'm being unreasonable or obtuse by continuing to question this conclusion in the absence of undeniable proof for such a major allegation.

For instance, we have absolute proof that the US actively and proudly influenced the Russian elections years ago to help Yeltsin win. We have verifiable proof that we have interfered in many elections. There have been excellent books written about these actions. They are heartbreaking to read as an American. The only proof I've seen for this Russian electoral interference has always had some kind of less than certain qualifier attached to it. Maybe I'm blinding myself to reality, but I don't think I am.

 

Heh, even Trump himself grudgingly conceded it was the Russians back in January.

Think about what it takes when Donald Trump actually admits to when he was wrong or cops to a lie in public. Not that that's a necessary condition to accept reality here.

Meanwhile you're, still, for whatever reason, the functional equivalent of an elderly uncle forwarding an email chain, not sure if this is some gaslighting crappery, but good lord, if you're looking for an argument about undisputed facts and false flags take your ass over to info wars or whatever.

 

You can read the report with all of the proof in it. There is no qualifier. Even Trump doesn't deny it anymore. The undocumented released 14 page PDF is available and linked multiple times on this board. You can read it yourself.

If you read it, and find the evidence lacking please explain what specifically about the report and analysis is somehow off?

 

Let's look at the facts:

1. Trump and Putin consistently praise one another
2. Trump's son claims Trump has massive investments in Russia
3. Trump invites Russia to hack opponents
4. Russia celebrates Trump
5. Russian intelligence tries to get Trump elected
6. Trump appoints many Russian-friendly individuals to cabinet
7. Trump campaign and business associates have contacts with Russia intelligence
8. Trump servers have communications with Russia right before each release of wikileaks Clinton emails
9. Matt Flynn resigns due to lying about meeting with Russia advisor
10. Sessions lied about contacts with Russia during confirmation hearing


I told you guys a year ago. Putin is POTUS.

 

I don't think you quite understand, friend.

When someone has lashed themselves to the mast of an absurd position, and the ship collapses into a mass of splintered timbers and foaming water around them ~ the solution is to either go down with the ship believing you done right or flail around and gulp seawater getting consumed by sharks.