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Communist China continue to practice Capitialism

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by txtony, Sep 24, 2015.

  1. txtony

    txtony Member

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    China to launch national Cap-and-Trade program to limit emissions

     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    This is something that I've seen in the PRC, while they are the biggest polluters there also is no debate there about the effects of greenhouse gases and human climate change. That is different here than the US when there is still major denial that is hampering action on it.
     
  3. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    They almost don't have a choice at this point, the pollution in the big cities is horrible. No matter what political or economic system they aspire to, they have to do something about this ASAP.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Well, we don't know what their debate is like and there has been a lot of action here even with a lot of disagreement
     
  5. txtony

    txtony Member

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    So it's a + and + for them?

    It's not entirely dependent to each other. They can still go Co2 unrestricted while cleaning up air. But that's so yesterday method and technology (i.e. dino and backward looking). So rather than invest in that, they are looking forward.

    As rocketsjudoka pointed out, they and their public do not question AGW. They are just taking responsible actions that is also a + for their future economy. I think they understand well what drive the next economy. They are investing and this is just another step toward their strategy.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    There's the obvious pollution such as smog but anthropogenic climate change isn't very obvious. As this site shows many simply don't understand the concept and believe that when it snows in winter means that it isn't happening. The PRC is taking steps to address both the very obvious pollution and the not so obvious things. While they have a long way to go and for every step they take forward they take two back at least they aren't in denial about it.
     
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    How do you know there aren't some Chinese who disagree? China isnt exactly a place that allows dissent.

    Judging by this logic, Chinese also agree with censorship and blocking of most of the internet.

    And I completely disagree that the US has taken zero steps against climate change.

    US has lowered emissions far more than China has
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    True I'm not privy to the internal Politburo debate but I've yet to see any PRC officials or even local people question it AGW like they do here. In a lot of things like the World's Fair and trade fairs they go to great lengths to talk about the issue. While a lot of this is for propaganda purposes and I suspect might also be a dig at the US.
     
  9. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Beijing's air quality is ****. It really is. Had a co-worker (American) who spent several years in China. She said it is as bad as it seems and that it is quite sad considering how beautiful the city is. However, that has nothing to do with CO2 and everything to do with actually carbon pollution (black carbon). Aerosols are also the largest contributor to glacier retreat.
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Yeah but that goes to my point. When does anyone question anything in China?

    This is true of all their issues.
     
  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    They are still poor and need cheap power. Coal is dirty but it's better than keeping people in poverty

    As they grow richer they will be able to switch to cleaner tech and they are already laying the groundwork
     
  12. txtony

    txtony Member

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  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    It is a country of 1.4 billion so there probably are some who don't believe it and yes the PRC does crack down on dissent. The PRC though has left a moderate amount of freedom in HK including to criticize the PRC government, to an extant. That said I haven't heard anyone in the dissident community or in HK express doubts about whether AGW is happening.
     
  14. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Those polls don't show drastic differences.

    And some of the "we're doing too much" people have a point depending on what the regulation is we're talking about
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    They usually dissent about political freedoms that are more important right now, no?
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    There are dissidents in the PRC and while many are in jail there are also many who have gotten their message out. Also in HK and Macau there still is a far greater freedom of speech and I've seen and talked to anti-government protesters there.

    None of them that I can recall ever questioned whether AGW was happening or accused the PRC of covering up evidence that AGW isn't like those who deny it here or in the UK.
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    True yes but what makes you think then that they also are in denial about AGW?
     
  18. txtony

    txtony Member

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    95% vs 65% concern about GW is quite a drastic difference.

    Also, some of us do talk to mainland Chinese folks directly and have a sense of their thinking. They just do not question AGW. They think it's weird that we do.
     
  19. txtony

    txtony Member

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    If you don't trust China polling data, then look at the other Asian Pacific countries. They are quite close in their opinion.
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    93% for the Asian countries but were closer to a lot of the European and Scandinavian countries
     
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