Just wondering, in view of Rudy's comments about how Collier could pull some of those irksome shotblocking centers away from the basket so Francis and Mobley don't keep running into a Shaq Eclipse. Rudy always thinks about players as elements of a system. Did he watch Sabonis and think, "I'm gonna find me one of them sweet-shooting 7-footers, even if his first step qualifies him for handicapped parking"? If that's what Rudy thought, does it make sense? Let's assume (against hope) that a young, healthy Collier never gets any better than a frail, over-the-hill Sabonis. Was that, plus a late first-rounder, worth cashing out pick #9? I'm kind of curious about looking at this in a purely negative light. Here we are in a conference loaded with stellar big men. If we can't match them, doesn't it make sense to pull their stellar big man out of the lane to guard our sweet-shooting oaf? Isn't that canceling-out strategy -- like Barkley drawing Shaq into a mutual ejection -- a smart way of neutralizing their advantage when we have the ball?
Maybe the coaching staff is doing some special work with Collier before the season starts in an effort to get him ready to earn mutual ejections with the opposition big men night in night out. It DOES make sense to draw the big men away from the hoop - didn't Walt play minutes at PF last season during our "hot streak" ? I can only then assume that it is in the game plan to draw the big men out - but at the same time provide a big enough frame to be able to rebound and body people up. ------------------
Aw, man... I thought this thread was going to be about how Collier is going to be as good as the 1980s USSR Sabonis... "If we can't match them, doesn't it make sense to pull their stellar big man out of the lane to guard our sweet-shooting oaf?" Hell yes. That's just about your only hope if your center is(aside from his shooting) a scrub. If Collier does have a nice shot, it sure would make it easier for Stevie to make SportsCenter without $haq, Mutombo, and Robinson clogging the lane... ------------------ WE WILL WATCH THEM FALL... Next year
Dr. N knows- Collier was drafted as an answer to Shaq. ------------------ -The expert has spoken, so shut up and try to comprehend the truth.
Will: That's what I always assumed. The problem is that Collier doesn't shoot quite well enough for that to work. His 3 pt shooter from the college line wasn't exactly stellar, so it will be even worse in the NBA. Of course, if he improved his shooting... ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Looks like the man we need is none other than.....BILL WENNINGTON! Ta Dah! Lets hope we get a deal worked out to get him soon. ------------------ Ugh, Another Rockets off-season....I'm gonna need a keg of Pepto-Bismol.
In theory is looks good, but the Finals showed that it doesn't really work. Smits is a sweet shooter, but he was hardly effective against Shaq. Further, when he missed...there was no rebounding at all from the Pacers and this gave the Lakers too many easy boards. I think the reality is that the best way to stop Shaq etc is something like the 'Robinson - Duncan' duo. Just wish that was an easy thing to find I really hope Dream comes back strongly this season as I think him and a commited Cato could be a really good defensive pairing. Here's hoping. ------------------
Screaming: I think the problem was that Smits was too bony to play Shaq. The strategy seemed to work fairly well with Sabonis. Imho, that's the reason why Portland almost took the series. Collier does have the size, n'est pas? I just don't think his shot is good enough. And since he's a 4 year finesse player, I wonder how much room there is for an improvement. ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
You dont have to be shooting 3-pointers to be effective either. A consistent 18footer would help draw Shaq out. It's a whole another story if Collier is cold during that game. The problem with this is that we would almost never get any offensive rebs. Last years Cato would not be getting any offensive reb. And against good teams u need as many second chance baskets as u can get. I'n hoping Collier turns out to be more like Vlade. Decent defense, good passer, good shooter, and average rebounder. If he even comes a little close to vlade or sabonis then I believe he was worth the trade with Bucks. ------------------ Fun Police Says: 1. Insulting fellow posters without my permission is not FUN! 2. Spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure are not FUN! 3. Stupid BBS names are not FUN! 4. Annoying Mango can be really FUN! 5. Conduct yourself in a FUN way! The Fun Police are Watching. Eat MANGOES & Have FUN or be Assimilated.
I don't get this rebounding objection. Yes, our center is away from the basket. But for that reason, so is their center -- and their center is (presumably) a better rebounder than ours, so they lose more rebounding than we do. If our big men are on the perimeter, and their big men are guarding our big men, who's left to get the rebound? The guards. And guess who's got some pretty good rebounding guards? I'm beginning to like this picture.
If Collier and Cato are in the game then I dont believe this works (unless collier is playing pretty well). Yeah someone like David Robinson might be out guarding Collier, but Duncan who is guarding Cato close to the basket, wont even let him get one single reb. This is ofcourse assuming Cato has no rebounding skills like last year. ------------------ Fun Police Says: 1. Insulting fellow posters without my permission is not FUN! 2. Spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure are not FUN! 3. Stupid BBS names are not FUN! 4. Annoying Mango can be really FUN! 5. Conduct yourself in a FUN way! The Fun Police are Watching. Eat MANGOES & Have FUN or be Assimilated.
You guys are wrong to compare Collier to a Smits. Collier was drafted to play like Sam Perkins. Perkins was very effective against Shaq last year, and against Hakeem in the Seattle/Houston series, at pulling the opposing center out of the lane by shooting 3s. Of course, Collier will have to be a threat first, so I hope he is practicing tonight. ------------------ -The expert has spoken, so shut up and try to comprehend the truth.
And here I was hoping to compare Collier to Laimbeer. Solid rebounder, lights-out shooter from 20 feet, sets good screens. Excellent piece to puzzle utilizing the guards to drive the lane (Thomas, Dumars). Collier will never throw elbows like Big Bill could tho. ------------------
right on Will. let's see...Francis is out,,,Mobley is Out,,,Anderson is in the corner...and our center is out as well, weakside, pulling their center out. there is a name for that...4 out 1 flex. watch it babes....i will animate. give me some input. know right now that that it is a classic foundation for a 3 guard system!! ruyd knows....
Forget Collier. It's all about Dench these days. ------------------ "At one of these governors' conferences, George [W. Bush] turns to me and says: 'What are they talking about?' I said: 'I don't know.' He said: 'You don't know anything, do you?' And I said: 'Not one thing.' [Bush] said: 'Neither do I.' And we kind of high-fived." --Republican Gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico shares a verbal exchange that took place between he and George W. Bush. (Quote is from the Los Angeles Times, 5/31/00) Dubyah Speaks
I don't think yall should put too much thought into how Collier will occupy opposing centers on offense because the only thing he's likely to occupy for most of the season is a seat on the sideline. ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
Will makes an excellent point, however, I must agree with Timing. It is pretty sad when your 15th draft pick can't take minutes away from either Kenny Thomas or Carlos Rogers. From reading the Rockie Mountain Review box scores and watching the two games broacast on ESPN2, Collier won't be drawing any big men outside (unless they change the rules and he is allowed to shoot it from the Rocket's bench). Collic's rebounding skills were disappointing, and his defensive foot speed and leaping ability were worse than I feared. IMO, he is strictly bench warming fodder. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Swami (edited August 05, 2000).]
Collier will be very effective in opening up the lane for the guards. The RMR really was not a good indication of what he can do. Collier will be a solid, productive rotation player for this team and as Rudy labelled him a "chemistry pick". That 4-1 overload set that heypartner was referring to will work beautifully with Collier in there. Last yr even with Cato, it worked quite well as Mobley would be able to get by his defender on the isolation, and the opposing big man had to help out while Mobley passed to Cato who was streaking on the baseline for the dunk. When Collier is in the same position, there will be a gaping driving hole in the middle b/c Collier does not have to dive to the hoop for the dunk. If the ball is kicked to him for a wide open 18 footer on the baseline, that shot is money. The more he proves he can make it, the more the opposing center will have to step out and guard him. That means more and more driving lanes for the guards. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
MManal, How do you differentiate between your arguments that a) the RMR wasn't adequate to complain about Collier -and- b) that KT was a failure at the RMR Thanks in Advance (I know what your argument is, but I just thought I'd give you crap). More importantly: Dench hit his open shots from 3 - 24 feet, which is alot better than what I saw of Collier. Was Collier a better defender in college? ------------------ "At one of these governors' conferences, George [W. Bush] turns to me and says: 'What are they talking about?' I said: 'I don't know.' He said: 'You don't know anything, do you?' And I said: 'Not one thing.' [Bush] said: 'Neither do I.' And we kind of high-fived." --Republican Gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico shares a verbal exchange that took place between he and George W. Bush. (Quote is from the Los Angeles Times, 5/31/00) Dubyah Speaks
