ClutchFans Game Thread: Grizzlies @ Rockets 2/20/2012

Actually he averages 18.9 and 6.6 this season, but OMG MY BAD!

 

Normally Martin is fairly consistent. But this season Gay is more consistent.

 

Haha exactly. Thank you.

 

Being in the conversation for all-star doesn't mean much. It's a popularity contest and we all know there's more to basketball than the basic box score numbers.

Don't get me wrong, he's a solid player. So is Martin. They're just not star-level players. They're on the high end of the roleplayer spectrum.

 

Something I've been wondering. Since when was Lowry such a good free throw shooter? Shooting like 85% on the year from the line. I remember he used to always be 1/2 from each trip to the line. Man, he's improved so many facets of his game. I wonder if he can get even better?

 

With the coaches discussing it's more of a expert's talk. Less of a popularity contest with the voters.

Don't agree there. Martin is Top 42 player ranked in those two years.
Gay has been around 30-35.
He has a better physique to play man defense. He is a better rebounder and has better court vision, slower than Martin.

 

Maybe this is just me, but I tend to think of "role players" as guys who either come off the bench (CLee, Dragic, Bud) or guys that start but don't score much because they contribute in other ways (Battier, Parsons, etc.). I just don't think players who make $10+ mil a season and score almost 20 pts a game are "role players." But I do get what you are saying...

 

Rudy Gay can take the ball to the basket and attack the rim where Martin depends on the refs when he drives to the basket. Rudy Gay can close games and has closed games as a leader/individual on game winning shots. Gay is more talented, athletic, lengthier... he can block shots better... defensively Rudy is better.

 

He works really hard. I don't know how much more he can improve though due to his physical tools. He's not a ridiculous athlete like most elite point guards.

 

Yeah it's just about defining terms I guess. I don't really care what you call it my point is just that neither of them are in the top 30 players IMO so they are below star level. And certainly neither of the are in that top 15, superstar range.

 

Role players are players that are either specialists or guys that do things mediocre, somes good but not great.

Rudy has some elite rebounding, and very good scoring to offer.
He is not quite elite in defense, assisting and other parts.

But a Top 28-35 player is a very good in this league.

Role players are normally top 100-400 players in the league.

Sometimes an allstar can become a super role player if he is only the third or fourth option on a team.

See Lebron, Wade and Bosh.....
Kevin Garnett doing more of a dirty job than with Minnesota

 

Or especially tall... This is most unfortunate. But I don't know of anyone who predicted the amazing improvement that Lowry has showed so far, so maybe it's possible.

Also, are most elite guards ridiculous athletes? I guess quite a few are, but guys like CP3, DWill, Nash, and Parker also come to mind. None of them are ridiculous athletes, although CP3 and DWill are probably more so than Lowry.

 

It doesn't really matter what's a roleplayer and what's not. Point is Martin and Gay both provide about the same level of overall production to a team. Yes, Gay rebounds and defends better, obviously. But he is much less efficient than Martin, who gets his points using much fewer possessions. Martin's TS% this year is .561, Gay's is only .508, which is at the low end for a starting SF.

For comparison's sake, Trevor Ariza's TS% is .488. Everyone knows Ariza is a horribly inefficient player, well Gay is not that much more efficient than him.

 

That is if TS% is all you go by...

 

TS% is as good a measure of efficiency as we have really. It's not perfect because it doesn't account for double teams etc. But it's still a lot better than just looking at pure FG%.

 

His FT% is down 5% from his career average. Do you know what Martin and Gay's career TS% are?

 

.596 and .531. League average is typically between .53 and .54.

 

First,
It does matter. Because the Rockets have role players in a dozen. And Martin plays like a role player when he scores zero points or 10. More often than not he has those nights.

Second,
Efficiency is relevant but not No.1 because Morey is not the coach, only the GM.
McHale is the coach and he loves Rebounding, Defense more than some Efficiency level and Flopping. Rudy is a better player than Martin right now. He is arguably younger. 25 to 29.

Third,
Martin can't do those things any longer. Rules changed a tad. He is not that efficient any longer.

Rudy plays at a position that is the weakest on the Rockets.
Martin at SG and with Courtney's Defense and Offense, it's not a liability giving Martin away.

 

Gay's career TS% is .531. Martin's is .596.

 

Oops, sorry durvasa (and thanks). My internet went down for a minute.