[ClutchFans] An NBA Nightmare: The James Harden-Dwight Howard Pick-and-Roll

Jump off a bridge

 

last year, where they had the same quality roll men.

Prior year, Harden was #1 at OKC, and Lin was #5 with Tyson Chandler.

ie Harden was better despite Lin having a better roll man, and then vastly better when they had the same roll man.

 

Please stop. Harden is A FREAKING TOP 5 PnR player...how clear does it have to be to you. Think players are actually going to go over the screen on Lin? SMH

 

Lin is not goog at PnR? So how the hell linsanity happened? The whole world knows that Lin is the top PnR player in the league. If Rockets wants to trade Lin, you have to let him run the play with Howard to be successful. Rockets already demoted Lin's game and talents. Look at Knicks Felton, his stats is the similar as Lin's, but he is the main guy to run the play as PG. JR Smith is one of the best shooters. He didn't take over PG position and still good. Harden's superstar stats was based on big sacrifice from Lin, Asik, And others. Be fair.

 

Morey said in an interview within the last month that Lin was the 5th best pick and roll ball handler last year. Since Morey has SportVU and is pretty good at math, and also wins virtually every transaction he makes, I'm going to trust Morey's rating over anyone else's.

I expect this thread, and future threads, to continue mocking folks who say that Lin is as good as Harden at pick and roll handling, despite the evidence Morey introduced. Either Morey's claims will be completely ignored, or folks will say that Morey is lying, which is always a convenient way to dismiss evidence that undermines one's preconceived biases.

Or, you could entertain the notion that Morey is NOT lying, and that the reason for the unlikely long stretch of high production play during Linsanity and Lin's documented and verified elite speed and first step are an expression of talent and usually talent continues to flourish one way or another. Lin may not get the usage that he did the season before, but he's still doing some things at an elite level...and getting better, as is usually assumed with players of limited experience.

 

It is simple. You do not take as talented and well rounded an offensive player and make him a spot up shooter from the three point line. The offense runs through Harden and unless Chris Paul falls in our lap, that w

 

Geez, people on this board are really thick and go crazy when someone say anything about Lin. All you can read is Lin is as good a PnR player as Harder and let the main point of the post fly right over you.

The point of playing Lin at PnR and Harden at 3 is to maximize the team scoring by putting each player in a position relative to their strength. There maybe a difference in Lin and Harden's PnR ability but it is not as large a gap as their ability at the 3 pt line.

 

The bold parts are just highlighted just for the LOLs. The whole world knows he is THE TOP Pn$ player in the league. That is great biased and awesome wrong opinion there. Yes, that opinion is just plain wrong. Linsanity? That was a 2 week thing that happened a year ago and was never again recreated. JR Smith? If you had a lick of Bball knowledge you would know why he doesn't handle the ball. He is just a scorer that's it. He has no handles, no passes, nothing. Dude is just good for one thing and one thing only and he got ****ted on during the playoffs shooting like 10% or something lol.

Hardens superstar stats are because he was putting up superstar numbers. Your logic sucks so much man. Hell, at one point only he and Lebron James averaged 25/5/5.

 

Lin is good at the pick and roll. He's not as good as James Harden. The advanced stats (pick and roll ball handler efficiency) reflects this, as well as the part where, you know, Harden scores 25 points per game.

 

You do it if that maximizes the team scoring and helps you win more. Besides, no one is saying run Lin PnR and have Harden camp at the 3 all day. I am sure they will mix up the offense in creative ways to keep the opponents off guard.

 

Then that would mean having Harden with PnR...lol. Not that hard. You would seriously but the focal point of the offense at the 3pt line. What defenders does Lin draw? He is a good PnR player no doubt, but not as much of a great all around player as JH, lettuce be honest.

 

Do you know why you got this kind of response? Because some fans from this forum are the worst ones I have ever seen so far. No matter how bad Harden is, those ones tried to protect him. No matter how good lin is, those fans here tried to bash him and used worst words against him. Some fans here really have no respect to players at all. Why people can not talk about other players? We talked about Asik also. How come you didn't ask people to stop that? This team does not have only Harden and Howard to do PnR, other players can too. And they are good. Be fair.

 

Yes they are good, but not AS GOOD. :grin:


#BeWell

 

Everybody knows Harden is excellent shooter. Morey said both harden and Lin are top PnR players. Since this is a five team game, you have to maximize each player's strength. This article talks only about Harden and Hiward. That makes people think why only those two? You have other players who can help.
Don't brag anything before you really make it.

 

As I illustrated earlier the combined avg score for Lin and Harden would be higher if Lin is doing the PnR and Harden is at the 3 pt line because Harden is a better scorer. If Harden is in the PnR and just do a jumper when the defender goes under, then he might as well do a 3 pts shot since that would be more efficient.

The fact to point out is that the gap in Lin and Harden's PnR ability is not as great as their 3 pt shot ability. When the PnR is defended well by better teams, you need a 3 pt shot that will go down reliably. Now would you rather have Harden take that shot or JLin?

 

What's this based off of?

And your entire point is flawed. If Harden does a PnR and defenders go under the pick, he punishes them (as often seen last season) but taking a 3.

If Jeremy Lin attempts a PnR and players go under the pick, why would Harden's man ever leave him open?

Also, teams are far more likely to over help when James Harden has the ball than Jeremy Lin, we have seen that time and time again.

 

Because it's just laughable that you don't even get the point of why we run the PnR. It's primary objective is to get Harden driving into the lane. Harden is better at drawing fouls and finishing than Lin. I mean, it's almost ridiculous that I have to say that. Harden is the best at the league. The BEST. And now you say Lin is just as good? It's NUTS.

You run the PnR to free Harden up. No other reason.

 

Favorite post in a long while

 

Honestly, people are pretty realistic about Harden. It's Lin's fans that can't assess his game honestly and constantly over rate his game.

The rest of the forum just gets tired of it. You know there are a lot of people who underrate Lin and probably have stopped liking him. The reason? Because they are tired of people constantly saying Lin is just as good at Harden at x or y. And so they start to diminish anything good he does as a reaction.

Lin fans need to chill and stop trying to come up with some of these wild theories. Lin is a good basketball player. But we're trying to talk about the ROCKETS and how they are going to win. Sometimes it's about Harden, sometimes it's about Asik, sometimes it's about Lin.

But with a certain group...it always have to be about Lin - why???

 

We have to maximize winning by running our offense through James Harden, the best high volume pick and roll player and shooter we have.