and you obviously know nothing about the NBA. Look Vesely is athletic, but there are better athletes in the NBA. If you actually watched NBA games you would know that this isn't even debatable. Hell, Vesely isn't even the most athletic player in this Draft Class.That title probably goes to Travis Leslie out of Georgia; the guy is an athletic freak.
Hamilton = Bud.......a WASH....No purpose in getting this kid. We have one like him already.We need to go big (PF/C) and get SF via free agency.....Wilson Chandler babbbbbbbyy!!
You really need to stop comparing NBA and non-NBA players. There are at least 3 people on this one thread that has called you out on your lack of knowledge regarding NBA players. Now, please tell me how Vesley is more athletic than Courtney Lee? What measurables can you compare that lead you to believe this? Just making a blank statement such as "you don't know anything" without listing facts is pretty bush league to say the least. Go ahead, explain why he is more athletic with FACTS. Thanks.
Cory Joseph, freshman PG out of Texas, is an absolute fool for declaring. He's far from pro-ready, and is an early 2nd-rounder, best-case scenario. He'll spend most of the season drowning in the D-League, and the rest of the year rotting on the end of the Cleveland Cavaliers' bench.
No, see the problem is I watch NBA and Euroleague. The rest of you only watch NBA and base Euroleague entirely 100% on nbadraft.net, draftexpress.com, NBA fans myths and legends, NBA hype marketing, and on youtube clips. Most of the NBA only fans also have a very clear patriotic and xenophobic bias towards American players that is not based on reality, nor objectivity. Some, even show racism towards any player that is not black. I, on other other hand, and simply properly evaluating players and doing it objectively and with a proper sample size of watching game competition. That is what is bothering some people here. They can't stand to see facts like Euroleague players are the same height as NBA players, or that the Euroleague is more physical than the NBA being posted here. Because in their own minds, they believe these myths that NBNA players are "all taller than Euroleague players" and that the "NBA is more physical than the soft, weak Euroleague", even though neither one is remotely true and it angers them when they learn they are not true and that the NBA might not be quite what they think it is. It is basically just refusing to accept reality because you don't like what it is.
Sigh.. I'm not gonna argue NBA vs. Europe with you ... and unless you know some of these people on this board personally then you truly can't say "that they only watch the NBA".. Look, this all started by YOU saying that "Vesely would be the most athletic player in the entire NBA." Alright lets look at this objectively. Okay, just from a measurement stand point your telling me that Jan Vesely at 6'11 will measure with vertical leap higher than 44.5 inches and a vertical reach higher than 12ft' 5 inch, and will have a faster full court sprint than 3.14 seconds? Because in order to technically be considered the "most athletic player in the NBA" he would have to do better than all this measurements. If he does than holy **** his the prospect of the century, specially coming from a 6'11 guy. But if he doesn't, than he is not the most athletic player in the NBA, and you were looking at this subjectively rather then objectively. FYI, You'd be surprised, some of the most athletic players in the NBA are at times some scrubs setting at the end of a bench. James White (former Spur and Rocket) had a higher vertical leap and vertical reach then the one's I listed.
James White is nowhere near the athletic level of Vesely. The only thing athletic about White is that he has an insane jumping ability and body coordination on dunks. But other than that, he is well below average athletically at the Euroleague level. So much so that he could not stay in the Euroleague past his first contract. He is slow, has no lateral movement, has slow reflexes, slow feet, no first step, no real explosion at all of the dribble, etc. If he is the standard for the "most athletic" amongst the NBA players, then Vesely easily eclipses that. White is the best athletically for dunking, no doubt about that, but in an overall athletic sense (dunking and everything else) he is just average. He could not beat anyone off the dribble in Euroleague. He could not get to the rim in Euroleague off the dribble in the half court. He could not defend anyone man to man laterally in Euroleague. So if that is the top standard athleticism for NBA, then yeah, Vesely is without any doubt more athletic than that. And so are many other Euroleague players. The truth is, James White is no special all-around athlete. He is a freak jumper (no denying that), but that is the whole and only extent of his athletic ability. Playing basketball isn't a jumping competition, although NBA marketing makes it seem that way. It is a basketball game. White is quite mediocre athletically in all the other areas besides jumping. which is why he has been a successful player in the D-League, in small sized Russian League clubs and why he has not been good enough for NBA and Euroleague clubs. But he is almost unbeatable in a dunk contest anywhere.
You completely missed the point. Key Word to the James White comment(HAD).... I never said James White was the standard. Just simply at one point when he was younger he measured higher than "some" of the 'current standards'. Also I would have listed other things besides vertical leap and vertical leap reach, like strength, agility (lateral quickness) but I seriously doubt Vesely is quicker than John Wall and Derrick Rose. Also I listed full court sprint, but do you really believe that Jan Vesely at 6'11, can cover the court faster than 3.14 seconds ... cause if so your pretty much saying his faster than John Wall.. If it makes you feel any better, Blake Griffin measured with a 35.5 inch vertical, and a 11ft 8.5 inch vertical reach and 10.95 in agility and 3.28 in full court sprint(which is actually pretty impressive).
How about this exercise. I'll name five American born NBA athletes currently playing, and you can name five European born NBA players from any era. Restricting the list to NBA players gives us a control for talent level of competition, of course. We want to compare apples to apples. I would be interested to see what that comparison looks like. 1. Blake Griffin 2. Derrick Rose 3. Russell Westbrook 4. Dwight Howard 5. Lebron James Call me a xenophobe if you like, but I am guessing you would have trouble finding five
Vesely can do any dunk Griffin does in an NBA game, as well, or better, except for the power aspect. But he can get off the floor quicker. In the wide open, almost zero defense regular season NBA, he will be an automatic dunk highlight reel if he is used properly. He is used to playing in a league with a smaller court, hand-checking, a true zone allowed, no defensive 3 seconds rule, very physical play (much more than the NBA is), very lenient refs, and where most teams just plant 2 6-10 to 7-0 or taller guys in the paint under the rim all game long. In a league where because of the amount of physical contact allowed by the refs (Knicks-Heat playoffs games from the '90s level) - there is a much smaller amount of easy scoring opportunities. He is used to playing in a league where he is roughed up physically and fouled on every single possession numerous times, unlike in the NBA where those will be called fouls the vast majority of the time. Some of that is allowed in the NBA playoffs, but not in the regular season. Definitely not on the perimeter, and not on the ball when heading to the rim. He is used to playing in a league where the lane is cut off almost at all times. By comparison, the NBA will be like a dream come true for him in terms of being able to get into the lane, get lobs, get open dunk looks, etc. There is barely even ever a true posterization in an entire NBA season. When there is one, ESPN runs it for weeks. Like Griffin on Mozgov. Big guys are not even allowed to be in position most of the time because of the NBA defensive rules. In the Euroleague, two bigs are standing under the rim almost the whole game. It will be wide open for Vesely like never before to throw down on people in the NBA. And the most important of all........in the NBA you are allowed to travel. They don't let you travel in Euroleague. You could take away literally 90% of all LeBron James and Dwyane Wade dunks that they get in the NBA if you put them in the Euroleague. Just on the difference in the travel rules and calls alone. All those dunks they get on travels in NBA games are illegal plays in the Euroleague, and the refs would actually enforce it. Give Vesey 3-5 steps without a dribble (you get 2-2.5 in Euroleague and the rule is enforced), give him the first step without having to dribble, give him an open lane, and bigs that can only slide over to defend (due to the 3 seconds defense rule), rather than camp under the basket (like in Euroleague) and Vesely will instantly be much more impacting athletically in the NBA than he has ever been, or could ever be, in the Euroleague. Just the difference of in the NBA where they allow you to take the first step before the first dribble hits the floor - that is illegal in the Euroleague and is a travel and the refs enforce it. In the NBA they most of the time even let you take the first step before you even begin to dribble, and often let you take 2 steps before. Would be a travel call every single time in Euroleague. And the Euroleague is not like the Olympics, like NBA fans think it is. No way. In the Olympics they let a lot of that travel stuff go. The play is more physical and they are more lenient on fouls a lot like Euroleague, but they let a lot of that travel stuff go. Not really for anyone other than Team USA . But for Team USA they let it go, because they are not really used to playing in any other way, due to how the NBA game is played. They don't let any of that go in the Euroleague. And even then, the play is more physical than the Olympics. Because you are allowed to set moving picks, moving screens, hip check the ball handler, throw your shoulder into the ball handler - all legal 100% in the Euroleague. NBA fans seem to equate what they see Team USA doing at the Olympics to what those same players would do in the Euroleague, which is ridiculous and absurd. Half the Team USA possessions that are allowed in the Olympics would be travels in the Euroleague. None of those fast break lob shows from 2008, or 2010 World Championship, with all the blatant travels would even be allowed in a Euroleague game. NBA is an entertainment show in the regular season mostly. It does not even become an actual serious competition until the playoffs, and even then it is mostly controlled by the refs. The Olympics or FIBA World Basket is a spectacle/serious sporting competition, with generally lenient refs, but with undeniable ref influence whenever it is needed (USA, Spain, or home country is playing). Euroleague is a wrestling match, not a WWE one, but a real one. They don't care if games are played in the 60s scores. That is what Vesely is used to. Strict adherence to true travel rules and defenses that can hit you with hip checks, shoulder blocks, moving screens, and moving picks all 100% legally - with a true pure zone (not the pseudo zone the NBA allows) and less room on the court. The 3 point corners are about the same distance as the NBA, but the out of bounds line at the sidelines is closer. The 3 point line at the elbows is closer and the court is narrower. The 3 point line is closer at the top of the key, and the court is shorter. Therefore players can close out on defense much easier. The 3 point line is further than it was in FIBA as NBA fans remember and the court is smaller in effect of what the defense has to cover, with a further 3 shot. NBA fans all seem to believe these new rules changes will make it more "NBA like" and easier for Team USA's "superior athleticism on offense". Wrong, it makes it even harder to score and easier for the defense on the perimeter. The only thing that is easier than the old rules on offense is with the rectangle lane, low post players can score more easily -IF they can shoot from close mid-range, because the true zones are still allowed. You get about 1/5 as many open jump shots in the Euroleague as you do in the NBA, and when they are open, the defense can rotate and close out fairly easy if they want to. Shooting 3s in the Euroleague is much harder than in the NBA because they are defended shots the big majority of the time. A 23 foot shot that is almost always defended (Euroleague 3 pointers) is much harder than a 25 foot shot that is usually not defended (NBA 3 pointers). Because the space is so small at the elbows and corners in Euroleague, you effectively lose the sides of the court from the perimeter. The area the defense has to cover is much less and the spacing becomes much worse. Etc., etc., etc. Vesely will be able to use his athletic ability much more and far easier in the NBA than he ever has been able to in the Euroleague.
No. Because you are only allowing European players that played in the NBA. If you cannot see how ridiculous that it is then it is useless to even begin such a topic. It is like saying, ALL European players that played anywhere on Earth, but ONLY the American NBA players that are from Texas. Let's compare. As if guys like the Gasol brothers, or Dirk, or Peja are considered athletic in Europe, when they most certainly are not, by any measure.
OHMSS, 1. Who do you consider to be the top-3 Euro prospects? 2. Excluding Ricky Rubio, who's the most overrated international prospect, in your opinion?
OHMMS, could you do me a favor and find a video of Vesely shooting the ball? I only see vids of him dunking and that doesn't equate to playing good basketball. Thank you in advance.
Ford's new big board: http://espn.go.com/nba/draft Its been reported that some teams may pass on Valanciunas because of his contract situation in Europe. Could we actually see him available at #14?
Tristan Thompson at #9... LOL! I had the opportunity to watch him very closely during his lone year at Texas, and he's far from the top-10 neighborhood. Not only is he undersized, he's one of the worst FT shooters I've ever seen at the collegiate level, hands down. He doesn't have a go-to move offensively, and struggled mightily against NBA-sized frontlines -- he virtually disappeared against Southern Cal and UNC, and was mediocre at-best against Kansas and UConn. His only strength is offensive rebounding, but he won't have the luxury of feasting on undersized bigs from Rice, Lamar, North Texas, and a handful of Big 12 squads at the next level. I understand this draft is VERY weak, and it's a brilliant strategy on his part to take the money and run before Sully, Perry Jones, Anthony Davis, etc. arrive at the table next year, but taking TT in the top-10 would be a catastrophic blunder.
